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…going to be talking with Mr. Joel Bower.
[00:00:16] Joel: That’s true.
[00:00:18] Scott: And today we’re going to be talking all about the power of masterminds once but also we’re going to give a little bit of our feedback and really what we've taken away from this past inner circle meeting that we’ve had some lessons that we want to really allow you guys to kind of listen in on because I think these are valuable for all businesses and sometimes you think that a business is very successful and you’re like, “Oh, they got it all figured out. We don't need to do anything else.” It’s just the opposite. I think that once someone gets to a certain level, then they have a tough time figuring out what's the next thing that they should focus on. It might not be about how to get the first sale anymore. It's about how to get another channel set up or how to hire a team or all that stuff. So, that's what we’re going to be talking about today and, Joel, why don't you kick it off? I'm really curious because this is random. We’re sitting in a hotel room because we’re still here doing a little debrief and I just wanted to kind of get your take. We have Angel sitting in as well. Angel, you want to say hello?
[00:01:15] Angel: Hello. How’s it going?
[00:01:19] Scott: She’s got the most energy in this room. So, what I want to do though is I just want to really dig in. I don't want this to be like this hour-long discussion. I don’t think it needs to be. I really want to get to the meat of it and I want your takeaways because it's fresh and…
[00:01:34] Joel: I’m going to update my notes to get them a little shorter.
[00:01:36] Scott: Yes, please. Do that. All right. Cool. So, let’s kick it off. So, what was your like big take away like I think at a high level being with these really awesome people?
[00:01:46] Joel: Yeah. First off, just an amazing group. I mean, that was really incredible as they all in some way are doing good and it’s not just like, “Here, I’m going to make money.” They’re here to do something that really matters to them and matters to the people that work for them and even charities and organizations outside and they show that in that room and their willingness to help each other and so I just want to thank you to them because that was amazing.
[00:02:07] Scott: No, it was. Wasn't it interesting too that a lot of people talk about like, “I want to go in that room,” or, “I want to get into the room and just talk about making money.” There wasn't a lot of that. There was, yeah, I want to make money but what is the money going to provide for the business or the people that they're helping or that they're employing to really grow that business? And I think it's cool to see that not everyone is like how do I just, you know, “Hurry up, how do I game Amazon? How do I make more money?” It wasn't about like the hacks or like how do I take a shortcut. It was really about…
[00:02:40] Joel: And get that Lamborghini. Don't forget that.
[00:02:42] Scott: Oh yeah. The Lambo. The Lambros as we call them.
[00:02:44] Joel: Lambros.
[00:02:45] Scott: So, yeah, I thought that was interesting.
[00:02:48] Joel: Yeah. I mean, that’s a great take away because there was a lot of talk about like we make money for a reason like this is the life that I want to live. This is the people I want to help. This is the charity I want to donate to. And, yeah, it wasn't like how do I get that big house? How do I get that boat? How do I get that car? I mean, sadly, it seems like it's very prevalent and it’s not really what most businesses do. Business is about trading value for value like people pay you money and if you take care of them, they'll do that again in the future. And so, that's with the product. That’s with the service. That’s how it works. And so, it was nice and it's good because there is so much out there saying, “Hey, it's about looking like you’re super successful and I can spend all this money and look at my nice car. Don’t you want this? Come get it.” That's not what it's about. It’s about the life they want. Each person is different. So, that's what really showed up in that room is like, “If I make more money, then I’ll be able to spend more time with my kids. I’ll be able to leave a legacy for them. I’ll be able to donate more to that charity. I’ll be able to actually help more people by providing jobs and give them opportunity to just start out there.”
[00:03:54] Scott: Yeah. The other thing I wanted to kind of touch on is like the one thing that I noticed, and it became very clear probably about, I don't know, maybe halfway through, is that all of these people were action takers, 100%. And one guy, I’m not going to mention names, but one guy blew us away with the numbers that he came in at like he didn't have a list, no list built, actually kind of was like a little resistant on as far as like doing that coming up with like maybe I'm not sure if I should or whatever and then we kind of said, “Well, we’d like you to come to the inner circle with something,” and he put it into place and he was so excited because he got six people on the list and then about seven days later, how many did he have on that list?
[00:04:46] Joel: 2,600.
[00:04:47] Scott: 2,600. So, I think he's a believer.
[00:04:51] Joel: He nailed it. I mean, I just want to give him props where it’s due. I mean, he owned that and crazy proud like it is like, “Oh, that’s so awesome. We can do so much from that point,” makes this a no-brainer. The inner circle is going to be an amazing thing for him. By the end of this year, I'm excited to see what his business becomes because it’s going to be incredible.
[00:05:10] Scott: Yeah. And a lot of the strategy that we talk about or even that we talked about a lot in that room was now, “Okay. It's great you’ve got this list. Now, what do you do with it?” Like, what do you send them? How do I know what to send them? I think a lot of people get it’s stuck in that. Well, what if I don't know how to shoot a video yet? Or what if I don't know how to write the content yet? So, a lot of times they get stuck because they're thinking about everything else that they have to do after they created the thing or how to create the thing that they never get started.
[00:05:42] Joel: Or how busy they’ll be if they do it. “Oh, it’ll be so huge. I’ll have to take care 10,000 people or 20,000.”
[00:05:48] Scott: And a lot of these people, though, a lot of these people are doing well over 30,000 a month in revenue, some 7,000 but you would say, “Well, why are they stuck there?” Well, because they figured out the Amazon side of things pretty much, but they don't know that other side of things and that's something they're working on. But the one thing I will say is that everyone agreed that well, let's see. I’ve got to actually put some maybe money behind this. I've got to test this and if it doesn't work, it's okay like that's the big take away that I got from a lot of these people too is they’re willing to do something and see what happens in order to get a result to see what they need to do next.
[00:06:30] Joel: Yeah. I mean, that's great. Everybody wants it like the magic bullet. I do this, I do this thing, and then they just send me the check. That’s what happened and it's like business is an interesting piece and it's you do things. You can even do the right things. You can even do perfect things. You do at the wrong time or you do it with the wrong energy, or you don't learn the lessons as they come back, and it doesn’t work. And the only thing that we’re talking earlier is the only thing that guarantees that you “fail” is by doing nothing and you get so worried about all the things that I have to do and what will happen and if this happens, this will happen. As I’m in there like 10 years down the road on things that the number of things that would have to occur to make that weird fantasy happen, it’s just not going to happen. So, yeah, get in there, get that information back, and get clear on the objective. What do you want? Because if it's like not every way works and not everything works for you. You can look at some guru or some expert and go, “Oh man, I’ll just copy exactly what he did,” and then you end up in a business like, “Oh yeah, you just got to hire 40 salespeople and move those things,” and you’re like, “I just wanted to hang out with my family and now I can’t.”
So, you got to be super careful, especially when the business is growing. Early on, any success is a great success because it gives you opportunities. It opens up new levels of understanding what you can do. At a certain point of success, the business really needs you to stop saying yes to opportunities and easier to take a step back and go, “What do I really need to do? What do I really want?” and that way you can switch out tactics. Tactics are dime a dozen. Everybody’s got this special tactic for getting new followers and adding new sales and new conversions. So, you have to try the thing, learn what do you want from it, keep pushing because the objective matters. Not that the tactic worked. And sometimes some tactics they take six months to prove. Some tactics take 10 minutes. And so, if you're looking at it, you go, “Hey, here’s all the tactics,” maybe pick the ones that take 10 minutes to vet instead of that six-month one. You can always go on the other one from success with the resources.
[00:08:28] Scott: Right. Okay. The other thing and I don’t know if you can illustrate this because we’re on audio, I would had you draw a picture, but…
[00:08:34] Joel: It’s going to be great.
[00:08:35] Scott: The one example and there was a couple people in the room that were like, “You know what, all I'm going to do,” this is before they entered the room because then we got to talk to him and kind of figure stuff out, “The way that I'm going to stay ahead of my competition is just keep launching more products.” Right?
[00:08:53] Joel: Oh yeah. I want to double my business, so I’ll just double all my work.
[00:08:56] Scott: So, we have some people that have 25 or 50 SKUs. We got some that have 3,000 SKUs. What happens, Joel, when I add more SKUs to my business?
[00:09:08] Joel: Well, according to this picture that I'm drawing – no. As you add more SKUs, complexity goes up, and that's always trouble for a business. I mean, because you look at the person that is at 3,000, if they found some critical flaw in the way they list products, how long do you think it would take for someone to update 3,000 SKUs? And so, just a lot gets lost in that and generally, business as we know consistently usually there's a revenue source or a small percentage of what you're doing that generates most of the revenue. And so, the idea is to kind of first bolster those, get those going, because those you know the return of your time is going to be paid pretty quickly versus the ones like some things like you’re going to do it exactly like you did the other one. They’re just not going to sell. There’s not an interest in the audience and you missed the mark in the research or maybe you didn't do any research. So, expecting that to perform like your top performers is not really going to happen. So, as you do that complexity thing, you can’t even respond to normal things.
Let's say that Amazon changes the policy and says, “You know what, you can only have three pictures now.” How long is it going to take to update 3,000 to get to the key three pictures? And every change in your business, a lot of good example, a lot of the advantages we have as small business is we can move. We’re not Procter & Gamble. We’re not Kmart.
[00:10:25] Scott: Kmart? Are they still a thing?
[00:10:30] Joel: That's a great example. Total accidental, but…
[00:10:35] Scott: I like that though.
[00:10:36] Joel: I like to pick them and see why. So, yeah, back to Kmart we’re going to keep mentioning them to the rest of the show.
[00:10:44] Scott: Yes.
[00:10:46] Joel: Yeah. They’re not even around. They couldn’t respond to changes and what’s really interesting and I like actually now that I did bring up the Kmart story, one of the beautiful things about Kmart is whether the last kind of nails in the coffin for them was full automation of their checkout process. Now, what stores don't have that? The problem is they did it on all of their registers and people did not like that. I remember actually going in at that time, it was right after they did it, it’s like they have one supervisor kind of roaming and there are 40 lanes and people just looked lost. They’re at the checkout. They’re in their cart and they’re just stuck. They’re like milling around. You ever like mess up an ant trail?
[00:11:28] Scott: I’ve never swiped. I’ve never swiped a product over a scanner.
[00:11:31] Joel: They’re like, beep, they’re like, “Oh man, what is this?” But our ability should be more dynamic than that. We can actually test things like that and then respond because we don’t have huge businesses. And so, one of the benefits is to actually look at it and kind of keep it lean, run for the things that have the most impact and drive those home because you don’t need to do everything perfect. You need to do the things that your business is known for very, very well. And when you're small, that might be customer service. That might be really like being there for them with the products that they need listening to their comments on what they need, and we can respond to it faster than one of the large companies.
[00:12:10] Scott: Right. Yeah, no I think that's great and thinking about 3,000 SKUs or even 100 SKUs, it's a lot. But the mindset is if I'm not launching new products then I'm not really growing my business and I'm not staying ahead of the competition and I think the example which I want to create an infographic for this because I think it was amazing, it was kind of like you're running in front of the pack and then they're coming after you. In order to stay ahead, you got to keep launching new products and you can either decide to go up the tree and kind of hope that you can stay above them or you can climb higher in the tree. And so, I just thought it was interesting to hear how the new products are just keeping you like one step ahead and that's kind of risky. Because then what happens when the products that are getting ripped off then you might have inventory that you're stuck with now because now you’ve got to focus on how to liquidate those.
Wouldn’t it just be better to focus on the ones that you can really, really add fuel to those and get those to grow outside of even just the Amazon channel and build that asset that we’ve talked so much about? And so many people they don’t realize it but they're sitting on a lot of customers that are within Amazon. I just got off the phone with an applicant for our second group in the inner circle and he's talking about like these different products and SKUs that he can sell but yet he's thinking to himself like he has to do that in order to succeed or to grow his business when in reality he really just has to focus more on what's already currently working and really going out and finding those customers on Amazon which you can do. You can basically pull those and then be able to re-target those and not going to get into tactics here, but you can. And like wouldn’t it be easier to send those people like maybe a coupon code for the same product they bought once before? Or maybe a new product that's related to that. Because they bought that, they might be interested in the other thing and that was a common thread throughout this meeting.
[00:14:17] Joel: Oh yeah, this meeting. Yeah. They’re like I’m going to try this new thing, entirely have no research on it, and that's going to entice these people to come back in. And then we see and they’re like even people running contests and the offer was like, you know, they sell, let’s say they sell I’m being careful because we have all of the people that are listening so I’m making sure I’m not hurting anybody’s market.
[00:14:38] Scott: Bass fishing.
[00:14:39] Joel: Let’s say it’s awesome bass fishing and they're looking at their product and they’re going, “You know what, we had great contest. Everybody will respond to. I’m going to get gold bars,” like and they get those lists and it’s not worth anything. And so, the closer you can get to what they originally came in for like they want something for bass fishing because the thing you know they want is the thing they bought. So, as you like come down that line, you have less response. That’s how I was thinking about it, but yes, some products don't lend themselves like once you have a refrigerator, you don’t need two refrigerators generally. Like, “Oh, maybe I need one for the garage.”
[00:15:11] Scott: Right. You might need the filter, the water filter.
[00:15:13] Joel: Yeah. You need a filter.
[00:15:15] Scott: Right? You might need that. That’s a product that would go well with that.
[00:15:18] Joel: Yeah. And when you get to that level then you go, “At least I know they’re interested. They’re at least in this the right ballpark.”
[00:15:24] Scott: Right. Stainless steel cleaner. Certain clogs that don’t scratch stainless steel. I’m just riffing here.
[00:15:31] Joel: At least here in the market. So, when they respond to the contest, guess what they care about? The thing you’re telling me. So, yeah, try to keep it in the same vein. It's really tough in a more successful business because opportunities have gone through the roof. Anything you can do. And so, I think one of the things like I’m going to double my SKUs is I know that works. That's how I got here. I sold products on Amazon or I sold them on my own site.
[00:15:55] Scott: But it’s also more of an instant gratification. We talked a lot about that though like if they put a product up, there's a really good chance that if they get a result from that of a sale then they’ve said, “Oh wow, look at. I did something. I got a result.” If you build a list, you don't necessarily get that instant payday. Because that's what we’re looking at. We’re gauging our business’s growth on paydays, right? We’re not looking at the growth of we've got customers now on a list. We have a pixeled audience inside of Facebook that we can actually put our offers in front of. Like that's an asset that's worth something and I think we've identified that with this one gentleman that, okay, now you have this asset. Now, we have to do something with it, but now that you can do something with it, and drive sales, even back to Amazon on your current product. You didn’t have to launch new products, but you’ve got a result.
[00:16:40] Joel: Yeah. You know, it comes back to that like we could measure that, and we have. I mean, that’s why we got so good at building a list is we did get sales almost immediately. We gave them an offer and put it in front of them right away. So, you’re still the same. You're still trying to drive and grow the business and it’s just this one thing to say, “Okay. I’m going to go try to get a whole new audience, a whole new customer and not even like learn anything from what I'm getting,” and I really do think it comes back to, “I know how to make a sale that way,” but your email strategy or writing an email and asking some of them, that seems really invasive, like what if they hate me? And there’s a lot of these additional fears and it’s because choices are opening, their experiences decrease because they have never done this. So, they look over this thing and it’s like, “Man, that is crushing out. I’m making so much money. These products are selling 100 a day.” Let’s go over here and hope that we get a sale with an email. You know, that adrenaline kick of like winning and dealing with that response, that doesn't feel like where there's a win. It was like, “Maybe we’ll get one if we’re lucky and then if we don't, we have to write another email.” They don’t do this, so it gets really hard.
[00:17:47] Scott: I think it's a mindset shift too a little bit and I think the mindset is this, especially with the Amazon world like people that are building businesses, but they're building Amazon businesses really right now because they’re not really then they’ll say, “It’s always about how to get the next sale. It's not about how to get a repeat sale. It’s about how to get the next sale.” So, you’re always kind of trying to find the new customer, the new customer, the new customer. Wouldn't it be cool to kind of focus? You can still focus on that. I think we all should, but wouldn’t it be cool to focus on a strategy and a plan and a process to get your past customers to see stuff and maybe buy again?
[00:18:25] Joel: Absolutely. I mean, that part’s harder. I kind of look at it. Whenever you run to something is a little bit more difficult than what you already know, it's a barrier to entry for competition. Will they do it? Will they write those emails? Will they try to create a real connection? Will they make a natural offer that leads from the first one to the second one? And all that comes down to is like thinking about your customers as a real human that's continuing to live past the purchase and they still have needs. And if we can be there for them, guess where they're going to go to? They’re going to go to us.
[00:18:52] Scott: Yeah. And I think the other thing and we were kind of going through this with our inner circle members is lifetime value of a customer, like do you know what that is? Like do you know what your long-term value of your customer? Like, what is that? What are you – is it $10? Is it $100? And you might be saying, “Well, they only buy one thing.” Look at your report. See how many people have bought more than one. That can be surprising sometimes. You're like, “Well, I would just think someone would buy one thing,” but they bought three. So, if you put an offer in front of that person again with the exact thing, that's it. The exact thing. Would they buy another one maybe for their cousin or maybe for their mother or father or whatever, or just a gift? They might, but if you don't put it in front of them, you’re not going to know. And to me, it's so much easier to do that but, yeah, like you said, it's easier really for them to just say, “All right. Let me just dial in the pay-per-click and get one more sale that way of a new customer.” It's great that you’re getting those new customers because that builds out that customer list that now we can also show up and get the longtime value of that customer and dial that in.
[00:20:03] Joel: That is definitely easier because you know more about them. When someone is coming in completely cold, you're trying to pull them out of their reality. The kid screaming in the background, their wife has this, they got to go to work, whatever it is, and you’re pulling them out of their real-life and you’re saying, “Pay attention to me long enough to buy my product.” And so, if you already know what they want, you can respect them more. I mean, you can really take care of where they're at and keep just making it easier for the next thing and the next thing. And so, in that, it does really help to think about, “Hey, this customer already acquired them.”
Whatever cost in PPC or AdWords or whatever advertising platform that you're doing, once that's happening, I mean, you can just, every sale that happens off there you basically don't have to pay the advertising budget again. That's kind of how I think about it. And then what can you discount? Like, if I paid a dollar to acquire someone to make $10 and they also then even at discount buy that same thing but I only make $8 because I gave him a discount, that was $8 I wasn’t going to get. And so, then you start thinking, “Okay. Well, how much can I spend?” so when competition comes in, well, man, I can spend up to 18 where anybody competing with me can only spend 10. So, even if I have to respond to competition and market changes, I have more that I can spend to basically protect my business.
[00:21:19] Scott: I think it’s knowing your numbers.
[00:21:20] Joel: Yeah, you have to know your numbers.
[00:21:21] Scott: If you know those numbers then you know, “Oh, well, wait a minute here. If I'm going to make $50 on a customer,” the lifetime of the customer, or just even the first year, you're like, “Well I can spend 25,” like it’s just general math and it's pretty basic. All right. I know we got to wrap up. Angel, I want to hear just a little bit of just like your takeaways like I know you sat in on that. You wrote a lot of notes because that's what you're good at it.
[00:21:51] Angel: I did. I did. I'll be coming after you, yes.
[00:21:54] Scott: What’s a couple of big takeaways that you can share?
[00:21:59] Angel: It stood out to me that one of the things that help people up on the email list, in particular, was that they were scared to pick a persona or what their brand represented that they would get locked in and they were surprised that you could actually shift that later and how easy it could be.
[00:22:19] Scott: That's a good one, actually, because a lot of people think that if they have this face to the brand, they can never switch. You know what I mean? And you can, and we talked about that. We don't have to go into all the details but just understand that you do need that I think, at least I think so when you’re writing the email because you want to come across as who the business is or the representing, the story, the why, the whole thing, but people feel that's one thing that they get hung up on. And we actually had one girl in the group that was hung up on that one thing. I know we got her through that too and she’s going to crush it but yeah, that's an awesome one. Any other one? I know I’m putting you on the spot.
[00:23:02] Angel: Really, it was their desire to do more despite the fact that that they knew they were stuck. They didn’t always realize what it was they were actually stuck on. I mean, it’s not always the thing that they thought that they were stuck on, but they came to help, to get help, and were ready to receive the help and really wanted to work through and work with us to get to a goal that they can actually achieve before the next time we meet up. And that was universal across the group and I thought that was really amazing because a lot of people show up sometimes and then not actually deliver, and not be ready to deliver. Everyone in the group was there.
[00:23:50] Scott: Yeah. And I'll wrap up on that. You know, a lot of people in that room they needed that clarity and focus and then accountability and I think anyone listening right now whether you are part of our inner circle ever or not, find that person and actually have that conversation or those people that you can check in with and create hard dates and deadlines because if you don't, and I forget who said it, I think you’ve said it, I’ve said it, Angel said it, everybody said it, if you if you say that you have a year to do it, it’ll take you a year to do it. If you have three months to do it, it will take you three months. If you have a month, you'll take a month. You're going to maybe have a little bit less of maybe the thing that you actually wanted but it will be done and then you can improve it and move on to the next thing, but you have to get it done. And so, I think we have to have our own deadlines and having a date and someone to actually have them hold them accountable for that. Because if you don't, and you’re just like, “Well, if I don't do it, who cares? It’s just me.”
[00:24:50] Angel: Exactly. There are so many distractions especially in this business since it’s easy to get yourself distracted and having somebody else there to say, “Hey, remember this?”
[00:25:58] Scott: Yeah. Hey, remember we talked about this? What's going on? So, I definitely recommend you guys do that. What I will do here at this point in this conversation is I know people will be either emailing me or contacting me about the inner circle. It is a closed group. We have them small of 10 people or less and currently, right now group one is filled but we are going for right now we’re taking applications for – we got a phone going off over here. I guess Joel's got an appointment. We are…
[00:25:31] Joel: Oh, it’s an applicant. They’re already calling in.
[00:25:34] Scott: Man, I didn’t even air this thing. So, if you guys are interested in learning more about the inner circle and if your business is at that point, you can head over to TASInnerCircle.com and there is some criteria there. Not everyone is at the level in their business where they are able to even join and that's okay but definitely check it out. If you are at that place in your business where you think you need that help and you want that help and you want to grow your business and really have a support team and just advisors really in your business, definitely check out TASInnerCircle.com. So, Joel, anything else you want to wrap up with? I know your phone is letting you know that you probably either have an applicant or you have an appointment. So, did you want to wrap up quick?
[00:26:19] Joel: Yeah. This is cool. I mean, there is so much that we can learn, and we always think that our problems are unique and special. No matter what level you're at, these all apply. It doesn't matter if you're doing 1 million, 10 million, your first 100, it ends up in the same thing. You get distracted, you convince yourself it's harder than it is, you let roadblocks determine what you're going to do next or stop you entirely, and you got to do something, take action, learn, keep moving. Just get clear on what you want. Don't give up. You might have to try 10 different things to get up, but when you do, you can do that thing forever and keep growing in that way.
[00:26:53] Scott: Yeah, absolutely. And no matter what level you're at, I've seen this, and I actually had a conversation with someone this morning about this. You know, like you might run something whether if you're starting a business or you're growing your business, you do something, you learn something, and it doesn't work as planned and then you wait until you think you figured out the next piece. Don't wait so long. Figure out that next move. Learn what you need to learn and then do it. Don't let your last experience stop you because that might be that thing that could grow your business, but because you had an experience in the past, you’re going to start telling yourself stories of why the next thing might not work either. So, just get out there and like Joel said, take action. We love that. Just take action.
[00:27:37] Joel: It seems familiar. I’ve heard that before.
[00:27:38] Scott: It seems really, really familiar. All right, guys. So, again, TASInnerCircle.com. The show notes to this episode can be found at TheAmazingSeller.com/575, and we’re going to wrap this up together. Are you ready to wrap this up?
[00:27:51] Joel: Oh, I'm ready.
[00:27:52] Scott: Really ready?
[00:27:53] Joel: Oh, wait. One sec. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:55] Scott: Okay. Now you are. All right, guys. Remember, as always, I’m here for you, I believe in you, and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to, come on, say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, on the count of three, one, two, three, take action!
[00:28:09] Joel: Take action!
[00:28:09] Angel: Take action!
[00:28:11] Scott: Have an awesome amazing day! And I’ll see you right back here on the next episode.
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