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…funnels, that is sales funnels, sales processing, and all of that fun stuff and we’re going to be doing it in the car. Once again, Chris Shaffer and I are in the car today heading to an event which you might have already heard an episode of this car ride. We’re calling it our carcast and we’ve got about 250 miles to kill and about 4 hours, so we figured why not record? So, if you are driving along 85 and you see us right now holding microphones to our face, yes, it was us recording this episode or these episodes. So, this is episode 527. The show notes can be found at TheAmazingSeller.com/527.
[00:00:54] Scott: Chris Shaffer, what’s going on over there on the passenger seat?
[00:00:57] Chris: Just people watching, a lot of people watching. It’s funny because I don’t sit in the passenger seat often.
[00:01:04] Scott: Me neither.
[00:01:04] Chris: If I’m on a road trip I’m driving usually and so I don’t get this view very often. It’s okay. Getting just to kind of sit here and watch the behavior of other people is really intriguing to me. For those of you who aren’t on the road with us, please there’s a knob to the left of your steering wheel and if you push it down, it tells everyone else that you’re going left and if you push it up, it tells everybody else that you’re going to go right.
[00:01:30] Scott: That’s right.
[00:01:32] Chris: If you weren’t aware of it, it is there and it’s actually really useful. We have been the only people using it and I feel this way in Texas too. I think in like South Carolina it’s like a sign of weakness. Everybody knows what you’re doing so they try to kind of speed past you. But other than that, I’m fired up and ready to go.
[00:01:48] Scott: You’re doing good. Okay. Cool. So, yeah, let’s dive in. Now, this is what we’ve talked about before as far as our different phases of building a business, a brand online, and all of that fun stuff is really phase 2. I don’t think that you would start here so if you are starting and you’re brand new to this e-commerce world, first place I would probably tell you to go is our free workshop over at TheAmazingSeller.com/Workshop. If you wanted to go through our Product Discovery Bootcamp, that would be another great place to check out and get started because it’s really about building the foundation and really understanding the market that you’re going into, finding the market but then also finding three to five products that – go ahead and hit decline on that. Thank you.
And, yes, this is live carcast and that was a phone call that is being declined, didn’t recognize the number up. But yeah, so if you’re interested in really going through that training, definitely check out TheAmazingSeller.com/Bootcamp and that is really to me the foundation that we can then do all of these other cool stuff that we’re going to be talking about today which is a funnel, building a sales funnel, a sales process, whatever you want to call it. We’re going to call it a funnel and we’ll talk about how it’s kind of all linked together. Also, about all of the components at a really basic level and then we’ll get a little bit more advanced, but I think to a lot of people just talking about this and implementing just a simple funnel seems advanced. So, where do you want to start, Chris?
[00:03:28] Chris: I think we need to start with just the components. We jokingly said this is the anatomy of a sales funnel.
[00:03:33] Scott: You did. Yes, you did that say that.
[00:03:35] Chris: We need to kind of break it down and talk about the big chunks that we need before that. So, first, I think we need to kind of define what a sales funnel is.
[00:03:42] Scott: That’d be a good place to start.
[00:03:42] Chris: And if you've ever been sold anything you've been through probably a real-life sales funnel if you ever bought a car or in one of the previous episodes we talked about like going to ProFlowers.com, you buy your flowers and then they try to sell you balloons and chocolates and teddy bears and cards and all those kinds of things on the backend. And the reason that they do that is because they know that they can get you in the door with a lower priced offer, the $29 or $39 of flowers and then they can sell you some other stuff that you might want to give to your wife or your girlfriend or your mother to go along with those flowers and in doing so, they increase their margins and they increase the value of you as a customer to them as a business which means they’re then able to spend more to get you to be their customer in the first place.
[00:04:25] Scott: Yeah. What is that called, Chris?
[00:04:27] Chris: Customer acquisition.
[00:04:28] Scott: There you go. Fancy word.
[00:04:29] Chris: And the real down and dirty secret of customer acquisition especially if you’re running ads is he who can afford to pay the most to acquire a customer usually wins. If you and I are going after the same market, Scott, and I can afford to pay $100 to acquire a customer and you can afford to pay $10, I can make a heck of a lot more mistakes. I can do a heck of a worse job and still come out ahead. So, if you’re just driving traffic to your garlic press sales page on your e-commerce website, you might be able to afford $10 to acquire a customer and be breakeven, right?
[00:05:03] Scott: Right.
[00:05:03] Chris: If I’m driving traffic to a sales funnel maybe because they’re buying the mylar balloons and the teddy bears and the chocolates on the backend, not paying anything more to get them exposed to those products and it’s something that goes along with it, I’m now able to afford to pay $100 to put somebody into the front of that funnel and that becomes extremely, extremely beneficial to me as a business because it gives me some wiggle room in terms of making mistakes which is something a lot of people make. So, that’s kind of the high-level overview. What are we doing? We’re taking people through kind of a controlled experience and we’re showing them different products that they may be interested in at different points in the journey. To do that, we need a traffic source. We can do this with our email list. We can do this with Facebook ads. We can do this with anybody and then we need a landing page. We need a compelling offer on that landing page whether it’s a sale, 30% off on our product right now, whether it’s a free plus shipping offer which is something we’ll probably dive into. It’s something we’ve been playing around with in the new brand. Something that’s going to kind of hook people and get them in the door.
In the case of something like a ProFlowers, $29.99 Mother’s Day roses, a dozen roses for $29.99. As soon as you add that to your cart, they say, “Hey, do you want to double that for just ten more dollars and I’ll give you two dozen roses?” They’re starting to work you up that process. We’re going to do the same thing with our own sales funnel. So, we need to figure out something that’s going to work with our audience and it’s going to be a really compelling offer for them. And then we need a few other things on the backend that we can offer to those customers that are going to make sense. We can’t just throw random things at them. This has to be kind of a cohesive like a thought through right experience for the customer and the thing that tends to work the best is what is the next thing that they would think about. And so, in the example of flowers, going back to ProFlowers, the reason that they give you a balloon as the next thing or chocolates or a teddy bear is if you’re giving them to your girlfriend or your wife, maybe you want to give her a teddy bear too or a balloon that says, “I love you,” or something like that. That’s going to be the next thing. The next thing is not a golf cart.
[00:06:57] Scott: Right. Well, wasn’t the first one that they offered you just more of what you already…
[00:07:01] Chris: More of the same.
[00:07:02] Scott: Yeah. More of the same. That’s the simplest form of a sales funnel is you just bought some here, let me give you more and then you can say yes or no if it makes sense to get more, right? So, I mean that’s a simple way of the funnel. But I think going back to like phase 1 and phase 2 and that’s a very, very different looking limousine that we’re having here.
[00:07:24] Chris: Yeah. It’s like blue. It looks like one of the – like an Icee machine.
[00:07:29] Scott: Yeah. Go ahead and try to describe that, Chris. I mean, I know we’re a little off topic here, but I think we have to kind of let people in on the vision that we’re seeing.
[00:07:36] Chris: So, Lincoln stretch limo and it’s black except the sides are not. The sides are the color of blue and red Icees and it was just, it was stickered with an ad for an apartment complex by the look of it. I’m assuming because we’re in a college town right now, but it was hideous.
[00:07:55] Scott: It really is. It got my attention I got to be honest. Okay. Back to sales funnels. So, okay, so like when we’re thinking about this, we have to also know that we can’t just really – you could but you wouldn’t be really ready until you have a few products. I mean although they don’t have to be your products.
[00:08:18] Chris: That is true. You could drop ship them or you could grab just 10 or 15 to see if something would work. You go to Walmart and buy a handful of things that you’re not selling right now and sell it for more. You do a little bit of retail arb inside of your own sales funnel there if you wanted to.
[00:08:32] Scott: Yeah. It’s a way to get things in front of people once they take the first part of the offer and again going back to like if you wanted to get 30% off of your product to gain an email address and to gain a customer, you could do that and not even sell them on Amazon if you want to. You can do that on your own platform and then without sending them over to Amazon you’re able to then control that next step, not relying on Amazon to say, “This is what frequently is bought together,” or any of that stuff. This way here, you’re controlling that. So, again, if we’re just building in phase 1, we probably want to do 30% off discount for the email address and then push them to Amazon so we can spike the algorithm and all that fun stuff and build that email list.
But in this case phase 2 we’re talking about building our own channel so this way we gain the email address of a customer and we’re able to control the experience and try to get that cart value up so this way here we can make it profitable with paid traffic because that’s really what we’re doing. Now, the one thing that I want to stress here, and I think people again just whenever you’re starting something new your expectations have to be there. They have to be correct as far as you can’t expect that it’s going to be profitable right out of the gate. So, let’s talk about that really quickly and then we’ll talk more about the components but when you’re doing a sales funnel, Chris, what is the main goal and what is our approach with this one that we’re doing right now? Like what’s our approach? How much should we spend? Talk about that.
[00:10:02] Chris: To make millions of dollars.
[00:10:03] Scott: Yeah. Right. Overnight.
[00:10:04] Chris: Well, that’s the thing and people here, even going back to some of the list building stuff, if you guys haven’t gone through any of the content that we have done on why we build our email list and how we do that, that’s at TheAmazingSeller.com/BuildList. Going back to like that workshop where we talk about people were asking how much are we paying per email? And we say $0.13 to $0.15. That’s not like the very first time I ever ran a Facebook ad. We did, and we document the entire journey there and everything that we did but like day one was not that. That’s what the average cost came down to. That’s where we started tweaking the dials and upfront we were probably paying $1.50 or $2 per email.
[00:10:44] Scott: And we were okay spending a dollar honestly.
[00:10:45] Chris: Right. And people a lot of times will get frustrated and it’s a question we get to the support email probably twice or three times a week that said and I see it in the Facebook group at least once a day that I’m paying $0.80 for an email. It’s the first time I giveaway. Is that bad? The answer is, “Well, it depends,” but no, generally no, because we’re in a data gathering stage. Just like when we’re trying to run PPC on Amazon, our goal upfront is not to sell millions of units at a 1% ACOS. It’s to be breakeven. We’re setting realistic expectations and if we’re not losing money, that’s even better. And so, our goal like and we’re running some tests in the new brand with a sales funnel and we own a free plus shipping and we can dive into how people can start to play around with that here in a minute, but our goal was to be breakeven right up front.
And the reason that we’re okay with that is when we’re trying to acquire an email address, not a customer email, a cold email, we’re okay with paying between $1 and $2 for that email address because we know the value that’s going to bring us over time. If I can acquire that email address for net zero dollars, for free, and that person has a credit card on file with me now which they do when they come through and they buy, I then own that customer data. That list is even more valuable to me than the email list because if I have a list of people who bought, and I create to say a Facebook look-alike of that, that list is more valuable. And those people have already raised their hand and bought something from me which means they’re more likely to buy from me again in the future than just a random cold person. Does that make sense?
[00:12:18] Scott: It does.
[00:12:19] Chris: So, our goal upfront is always to try and break even or at least not lose our shirt and there’s a couple of things that we do to do that. We’re driving past this limo again. It's worse. It's worse than what we thought it was. So, we set realistic expectations. That's the first thing. Anytime you're driving any ads to anything, you need to set realistic expectations and the goal is not to make money. The goal is to either not lose your shirt or to break even. Ideally, it’s breakeven but be okay with throwing away $500 for lack of a better term.
[00:12:54] Scott: And I think I just want to say that like you and I we put a $500 like it’s a test. It’s a test budget like so $500 is going into this first funnel that we’ve been running now for just about two weeks maybe and we were spending $20 a day and I think you’ve just bumped it to $30 a day, $35 a day and we’re getting data and we haven’t spent $250 yet I don’t think.
[00:13:21] Chris: I can tell you the numbers.
[00:13:21] Scott: Okay. Well, he’s going to look at the numbers and while he does, I will kill some time and just talk about like when we’re doing this, we’re doing it to see what is converting at like the minimum like what are all of the different components and those components again going back to what Chris was saying was your components are really like your ads and that’s like the first component but then your actual things that you’re driving people to are the front-end offer which is the offer that people are going to be raising their hand and putting their credit card in. For in our case, it’s a free plus shipping offer and then on the backend of that they go to another page, a thank you page and says, “Hey, your new garlic press is going to be shipped immediately and while I still have you, are you interested in our storage unit for garlic or whatever or our storage bags or whatever?” That would be the next thing.
So, we’re making them a gentle offer in a sense than as they’re going through this sales process and then we have the opportunity to do a couple of other things here. We can say if they say no, we can then down sell them something else that might be a little bit less expensive or maybe just something different. Now, if they say yes, we can then say, “Okay, let’s graduate them up.” Maybe now we give them a bundle offer of something else. So, we have a couple of different things that we can do but on the most basic level, it's traffic to an offer. From the offer, they say yes or no and then we can just send them to a thank you page. Or if they say no we can just Facebook pixel them and put them on a custom audience like that's at the most basic level. You have that number now, Chris, that I stalled?
[00:15:04] Chris: So, 269.
[00:15:06] Scott: So, we spent $269.
[00:15:08] Chris: And $0.60.
[00:15:09] Scott: And $0.60. So, $270 we basically spent so it’s a slow process but…
[00:15:19] Chris: You know, just so no one thinks that we’re perfect like our Facebook pixel wasn’t working for the first two days. We still spent the money because we saw that sales are coming through. So, it’s actually significantly less optimized than it should be given that we’ve been running it for about 10 days now but, yeah, I mean realistically so I sent this to 14. I’m trying to remember when we actually started. It’s been probably a week-and-a-half.
[00:15:44] Scott: Well, I think it was when we were at Sellers Summit it actually went live.
[00:15:48] Chris: Yeah. So, it’s been 13 days I guess.
[00:15:49] Scott: Yeah, something like that.
[00:15:52] Chris: Actually, no. What is today? Today is Monday. As I’m recording this, I was like it’s clearly Wednesday. It is not but it’s been ten days then because it went live the Wednesday of Sellers Summit. So, it’s been ten days. So, we spent about $25 a day or $26.90 if you want to yell at me for the math. That generated 513 clicks and 65 unique sales. Now, we also generated six upsells which is a lot less than what we would want but again we need to kind of dial that in a little bit and we’ve actually sold 84 units.
[00:16:34] Scott: That’s amazing. So, we have 84 new customers technically. Paying customers with a credit card.
[00:16:41] Chris: Well, 65 customers.
[00:16:42] Scott: Okay. Because they bought more than one.
[00:16:44] Chris: Right.
[00:16:44] Scott: Right. Okay. So, 65 customers we’ve acquired, and we have had some upsells so that offset the costs. So, right now we might be close even with fulfillment and cost of units to a breakeven we might have paid, I don’t know, would you say make $50 to $100, something like that without looking at the math 100%?
[00:17:03] Chris: Well, I’m looking at the math right now. What did I say? So, it’s $2.69. So, $599.12.
[00:17:09] Scott: It’s almost $600.
[00:17:11] Chris: We paid $45.
[00:17:13] Scott: Okay. So, there you go.
[00:17:14] Chris: So, we’re in the whole $45.
[00:17:15] Scott: Okay. Right. So, and which is terrible and we’re testing a very, very small part of our market.
[00:17:22] Chris: Yes.
[00:17:22] Scott: Right? A very, very…
[00:17:23] Chris: With a much less than an ideal offer.
[00:17:25] Scott: Exactly. Because we wanted to get this up fast, so we threw something up and it’s a good product. It’s just not 100% what we wanted. We have that coming as we speak right now and that offer will be interesting to put into place and see how that performs but I’m pretty happy with the results so far. And okay so what are the components of that right now?
[00:17:46] Chris: So, we have the ad.
[00:17:48] Scott: Okay. Facebook ad.
[00:17:49] Chris: And for those of you guys who are super curious, we are running a video ad, but it really doesn’t matter. It could be text. It could be a picture.
[00:17:56] Scott: And the video is less than three minutes.
[00:17:58] Chris: It’s about 2.5 minutes long. Anybody can do it. It’s not that difficult. The second thing is the landing page where we’re just saying, “Hey, get this thing for free plus shipping.” We’re charging $4.95 for shipping, right around $5.
[00:18:13] Scott: I still would like to play with that.
[00:18:14] Chris: Well, and that’s the thing. We’re converting at right around 11% from people who click on the page which is pretty good in my opinion. I don’t know. I haven't run a ton of free plus shipping offers but generally, if you can get a 3% or 4% conversion rate on anything, you're doing pretty well in terms of cold traffic which is who we’re running this offer to.
[00:18:34] Scott: Well, didn’t you talk with Mike Jackness about what we were initially doing?
[00:18:38] Chris: Yeah. He was kind of mad at our numbers actually.
[00:18:40] Scott: Right. And he’s done a lot of this and I think you would say like you said he’s like, “How the hell are you doing that?” Like, but…
[00:18:49] Chris: No, they’ve gotten a little worse since when he and I talked because we’re running to colder and colder traffic.
[00:18:53] Scott: Right.
[00:18:55] Chris: But they’re still pretty good.
[00:18:56] Scott: So, with the stuff that we have going right now like what I want people to see like it’s a very simple basic offer and just to let people know too on that front-end offer we wanted to source something for about $2 and the first one we actually source for about $2.50 and the reason is, is because we air shipped it and we got a smaller quantity and so we know that that cost, once we do those other two, will probably come down to about $1.75.
[00:19:29] Chris: So, Scott, before we even get into that, do we want to talk about how we came up with this thing that we’re using? Because I think again you guys don’t have to do this portion of this. You could just do 30% or 40% or whatever you want to do, fulfill it through Amazon, and you could do that. But what we decide to do is we wanted an irresistible offer which is really what we’re looking for when we do this. We found this thing that some people in our market we were using, a product that people were using for different things, and we looked at it as a potential product to sell on Amazon and said, “It’s too saturated. It’s too easy to duplicate. It would be a waste of our time to source it as a product.” However, if we can get it for about $2 and then fulfill it through Amazon for $4 or $5 depending on how many they buy, maybe it’s worth doing a free plus shipping. It’s small. It’s lightweight. It’s easy to ship. We can get it quickly. So, we actually went out and found a separate product, something we’re not selling on Amazon but is related to our market and is something that is being used by a lot of people in our market.
[00:20:39] Scott: Well, I’m going to correct you on that. We are selling it on Amazon but we’re not selling it on Amazon.
[00:20:43] Chris: Right. We didn’t source it to sell it on Amazon. We listed it on Amazon, so we could send in the inventory.
[00:20:47] Scott: Of course. Why would you, right? Well, I mean, why wouldn’t you put a list?
[00:20:50] Chris: I’m actually curious if we’ve sold any through Amazon.
[00:20:52] Scott: I haven’t looked.
[00:20:53] Chris: I think we priced it so that that wouldn’t…
[00:20:55] Scott: Yeah.
[00:20:56] Chris: And if we did then good for us.
[00:20:57] Scott: Yeah. But again, if you’re having, you might as well throw it up on your store and kind of put it there because you never know. You might start getting a few organic sales and that would offset it again some of your cost and stuff. But no, basically we’re sending it into Amazon as one of our products, so we can fulfill it through Amazon. Again, if we want to get that cost down eventually later, we can do something outside of using Amazon as our fulfillment. So, those are other thing…
[00:21:27] Chris: And if it’s an offer that continues to work for us, we’ll ship it via sea and that will bring it down to well under $2.
[00:21:31] Scott: Yeah. We’re thinking like $1.50 is about what that would be. And I think for a free plus shipping offer, you got to be around that price for. But in the beginning, again, if you’re just testing something out, who cares if you spend $3 a unit? I don’t care at that point. I’m just trying to see if I can get it to convert. If I get it to convert and my numbers are where I want them to be, then I can start to shave that other cost and see if it’s still worth doing and all of that. But I want people to understand like just the basic components that we used.
[00:21:58] Chris: Yeah. So, let’s walk through this with like the bass fishing example.
[00:22:02] Scott: Yeah. I think it’s a great one.
[00:22:02] Chris: So, we’re running a Facebook ad and the Facebook ad again first ad we created. I put it up in 20 minutes I think I said because we were leaving for an event.
[00:22:14] Scott: We wanted it running.
[00:22:15] Chris: I wanted to publish it before we walked out the door. So, not the greatest. The copy needs some work, the video probably needs some work but whatever. The ad literally goes like this, “Hey, do you like bass fishing? How would you like this lure, here’s this lure, the shiny little lure for free? All you have to do is cover shipping.” That’s what the video says. We show them how to use the lure for a minute in the video and then that says, “Pay us $4.95 and we’ll ship it to you for free.” That’s what it says. That’s free but you have to cover shipping. Now, if you’re going to do a free plus shipping offer, you need to include the cost of shipping in the ad and you need to say that they have to cover shipping, or you run in some issues with Facebook. But with some Facebook, apparently is now a sentence, you run into some issues with Facebook if you don’t disclose that and you’re probably going to affect your conversion rate there, how many people actually take you up on the offer if they go to it thinking it’s free and then realize they have to pay shipping. So, yes, we’re narrowing down the number of people who are going to click on that link, but they’re at least willing to pay the $4.95 or have some interest in the lure.
[00:23:16] Scott: We’ve filtered out the ones that don’t want to pay the shipping.
[00:23:19] Chris: Right. And so, then what they’re doing if they click on either the link that we wrote in the copy or on the little button on the ad, they are taking to our landing page. And now we use ClickFunnels to build this. You can do this in any landing page builder that will let you take payments. We use ClickFunnels because it’s very easy. We’re able to build that page in I think 20 minutes. From there, they’re taken to that page and that page says, “Hey, do you want to get this thing for free? It’s the same exact message.” We show them a couple of pictures that we stole directly from our Amazon listing of that product, of that little fishing lure and then all they do is they fill in their name, their address, and their credit card info and they hit buy and we ship them that thing.
Now, as soon as they hit that buy button, they’re taken to a page and it says, “Hey, your order is not complete. We’ll be shipping out your stuff soon, but we wanted to make sure that you’re aware that there’s also this vest, this fishing vest that you may be interested in.” Now, we’re going to do this one more time after they say either yes or no to that and we’re going to say, “Hey, here’s this tackle box thing you might be interested in.” The reason that we’re doing that is we’re trying to do a couple of things. One, we’re trying to increase that average customer value and we’re trying to cover our ad spend because we’re actually losing money on that first thing upfront. We’re paying $2, $2.50. What did you say? $2.10, something like that.
[00:24:39] Scott: Yeah. Something like that.
[00:24:40] Chris: Little over $2 and then whatever we're paying in the ad cost plus the fulfillment fee through Amazon. So, if we’re turning $4.95, we’re actually not making money. Those backend offers if a bunch of people takes us up on it, we can make a ton of money. If only a handful of people take us up on it, we can now breakeven which is kind of a goal upfront and then we can start to say what did they like, what didn’t they like, how many people actually saw it, how many people just clicked and exited. But really what we’re doing is we’re showing them the next few things that they may be interested in.
Obviously, if they are a bass fisherman and they’re interested in lures, they probably have more than one so they’re going to need a place to put them. Well, that’s going to be a vest. Well, if they have a vest and the vest is full then they'll need a tackle box. And so, we’re going to present them with those other products. Now, obviously we sell the vest and we sell the tackle box. So, it's products that we own that we already sourced that are already at Amazon. All we’re doing is paying the fulfillment fee then at that point. So, we already know what our cost per goods is or cost per unit is. We know what those fees are going to be and so we can set a price that’s really good for people and then we’re able to walk them through that sales funnel. What’s really simple is the ad to a landing page and then one or two additional products that they may be interested in.
[00:25:48] Scott: And that’s a simple form. There’s actually…
[00:25:52] Chris: We could make that a heck a lot more complicated.
[00:25:54] Scott: Right. And which I think we probably will in probably the next one that we do with the newer product that we’re going to be testing.
[00:26:02] Chris: The broader appeal product.
[00:26:03] Scott: Yeah. Because I think that we should give everyone another thing even if they say yes or if they say no.
[00:26:14] Chris: Correct.
[00:26:14] Scott: So, I think we should have a down sell which we call that. So, let’s say for example we offer them the vest and they said, “Nah, I’m good.” And then you might say, “Oh, well no problem. How would you like maybe five more of the lures that you just got?” And maybe that’s the down sell or maybe it’s maybe the first upsell was get our 12-pack of these lures and then they say no and then maybe the down sell is, “You want six?”
[00:26:44] Chris: And here’s something and it’s something we’re doing on that landing page, that first page where they’re paying us free plus shipping that we should talk about because when you’re talking about adding customer value and you’ll hear us use the terms upsell and down sell but really what they are is cross sales. It’s another thing that they’re interested in. In ecommerce, in general, the very first thing that people will buy, and it makes zero sense logically, but you see it time and time and time and time and time and time and time again and the entire infomercial industry is based on this concept. People will buy more of the thing they just bought because they have logically convinced themselves that it’s a worthwhile purchase and if they got a good deal on it then it’s worth giving to their mom, their sister, whoever, or they just want another one for themselves. And what we’re seeing right now is between 20% and 35% of people are buying more than one unit. So, we said, “Well, it’s 85 units on 65 sales.”
[00:27:37] Scott: Right.
[00:27:38] Chris: That’s pretty substantial, right? So, we’re allowing them to buy more than one at that $4.95. Now, the thing that’s interesting is if they buy two, we still pay the same amount to acquire the customer that we would have if they pick one, but it actually cost us less in terms of the Amazon fees and all of that kind of stuff.
[00:27:54] Scott: Well, yeah, mention that quick because I think that’s important for people to understand.
[00:27:56] Chris: So, the exact numbers are kind of not at the top of my head, but I think it’s something like $5.95 to fulfill it through Amazon’s third-party fulfillment if you do a single unit. If there’s more than one unit and it’s like two to five units or something is what that breakdown is. It drops to a $3.95. So, we’ve charged you $4.95 twice and then we’re paying $4 instead of $5.95 so we’re actually break even there minus some of the product depending on what the product ends up actually cost us, right? And then if they take the upsell or the down sell or any of those other kinds of things then that’s basically pure profit minus $3 and then unit costs. So, if we’re selling that at $19, the product costs us $2 that we’re paying another $3.95 in that Amazon fulfillment fee so it’s $5.95 total so you’re making $15. That helps make up almost all of the cost if only a handful of people take you up on those offers.
[00:28:54] Scott: And that’s why I really want to test this one here and I think we should kind of talking out loud here while we’re recording but I think we should run to one of our bundles and the bundle has three products. So, let’s say for example you give them the front-end offer. They say yes and then immediate offer after that is going to be more expensive. It’s going to be $39.95 or $29.95.
[00:29:20] Chris: It’s a hat, a vest, and a tackle box.
[00:29:21] Scott: Yeah. And so, from there they say, “Yes,” boom, you’ve got like three sales bundled in one so now you don’t need to even convert as many in order to be profitable.
[00:29:32] Chris: And you’re paying one fulfillment fee on that by the way.
[00:29:34] Scott: Exactly. Number two or the second option here is if they say no, we could immediately down sell them on maybe one or two of the things that are in the bundle and make it now $19.95. So, we’ve went from something that was a little bit more expensive to now the first down sell would be just maybe one of the…
[00:29:55] Chris: Just the hat.
[00:29:56] Scott: Just the hat. So, you can get all of the different things together for $39.95, the hat, that tackle box, and the vest and then you say, “No,” but we know that like probably the vest is going to be probably more popular then we would offer them the vest. Or we would start playing with that down sell and see what converted better. So, again, I think we should be playing around with that eventually but again you shouldn’t be testing all of these things at once and you shouldn’t be doing it prematurely. You should give it enough time. That’s why you and I both said even though it’s tempting we’re going to wait until the $500 is through and we’re going to see it through and then we’re going to look at our numbers. And right now, we’re only halfway through them, we’re still seeing pretty good numbers. So, with that being said, where else you want to go with this?
[00:30:43] Chris: So, I’m trying to think of the questions that are going to be on everybody’s mind.
[00:30:47] Scott: Well, I know one is, okay, and you mentioned it briefly but like how do you build these pages? Where do you build these pages? Again, we did a list building training which does actually walk you through some of these. Our choice for building, if you’re going to be building funnels is ClickFunnels. We are an affiliate for ClickFunnels. I believe they can go to TheAmazingSeller.com/Funnels. Is it funnels or funnel or is it both?
[00:31:15] Chris: I think it’s funnels.
[00:31:17] Scott: Check that out and we have some templates and stuff that we’ll actually include as a bonus if you go through our affiliate link which, yes, you will buy us today you’ll buy us some Hint water. We’ve been really going to town on this Hint water. If you haven’t tried the Hint water, I recommend it. It’s really good and I’m not an affiliate for them but, yeah, if you go through our affiliate link, you will buy us some Hint water or some tea or coffee. Anyway, that’s what we’re using. Really super simple. As we move forward here, guys, like we’ve talked about, we are going to be doing more training on this, so we will start to introduce that stuff to you and for you. The other platform that I would recommend or the tool is one that we built and we’ve actually built it with Chris Guthrie and that’s GiveawayBoost and that’s for doing your giveaways to build your email list.
It builds those landing pages and thank you pages and stuff like that but then also we’ve added a new component in there which is where you can give coupons, discounts, and then you can collect the email and then you can send them to a thank you page which then also will allow you to drop a Facebook pixel and build that custom audience and all of that stuff. And there is some training inside of GiveawayBoost that we’ve created that Chris has created that takes you entirely through that process like all the way through. So, definitely check out that and again that’s part of our list building training. You can go there and check it out or you can just go to TheAmazingSeller.com/Boost. I believe that is the correct URL for that. But, yeah, that’s one of the big questions I think. A lot of it is like how do I build this stuff and then also I think what is a good offer? And I think we could do a whole episode on offers which we probably should but right now let’s just maybe touch on that and then I think we could probably wrap up.
[00:33:08] Chris: Yeah.
[00:33:08] Scott: We don’t confuse too many people.
[00:33:10] Chris: Let’s talk about ClickFunnels for just a second. The reason that we like that is because, well, first of all, I can build it like you and I can sit down and drag and drop all of the things that we need to actually make this a thing and they make it kind of stupid simple because you say, “Okay. I need to take an order.” They have an order form element that you put on the page like there’s no coding, there’s none of that stuff that’s really involved in that and that’s one of the things that makes it really nice and integrates with any of the payment providers. We use Stripe to actually take people’s credit cards, but you can use just about anybody that you want through it. And we’re able to build that stuff very quickly and test it and I think that’s important for people. And then number two, Scott, you brought up offers and I think it’s important to understand that you don’t have to. To start testing with this stuff, you don’t have to do a free plus shipping. You could do a discount or you could do it at full price if you wanted and then just drive some paid traffic to it and see what happens.
But the thing that makes this powerful regardless of what your motive is, right, if it’s I only have three products right now. I don’t want to build a Shopify store and I want to drive some paid traffic like we were talking about in another episode. Okay. Then you can run it to a page that's all about your tackle box. It's a longer form sales page, longer than what you would see on Amazon and the people that I think everybody should model for this is Onnit. I'm a big fan of their founder. He speaks health in English if that makes sense. He’s a data nerd that understands how to communicate, and that was a groundhog hanging out all of a sudden. He actually understands how to break things down really well, but all of their products are really well thought through. They’re really well researched and what they do on their sales pages is they have what’s called in the digital marketing world, it’s called a long-form sales page. You can scroll and scroll and scroll forever on any other product sales pages and there’s information after information all about the product and they’re telling you all of the reasons why it’s important and all those things.
[00:35:07] Chris: Something we can’t do on Amazon and I think it’s a big change for people but if you guys model what they’re doing at Onnit.com, you can see kind of how that would apply to your products. They break it down into different things. So, they have features and benefits. They have the components that it’s made out of so a supplement might have all of the different ingredients and then they just talk a little bit about each of them. Because when you’re driving traffic to a page that’s not Amazon, you need to understand that you’re going to get a different group of people. People who are on Amazon already are people who want to buy something. You don’t go to Amazon to look around. You go to Amazon to buy stuff. When you’re on Facebook, you’re just there looking around. Something I might do in my ad might catch your eye and I then have to actually sell you the other thing. It’s not a buying experience. It’s a sales experience at that point.
[00:35:52] Scott: Really you need to convince an issue. Yeah.
[00:35:53] Chris: And so, we need to show you all of the different things that might convince you, Scott, versus me versus Joel versus Angel versus whoever else and we can do that. And ClickFunnels allows you to do that. So, take a look at something like Onnit and you’ll get an idea for another way that you could do this if you didn’t want to do a free plus shipping or something like that. The reason that we chose to do that is because, one, we had this product that would work well for it anyway and, two, because we wanted to try it as a concept within that brand to see if it would work.
[00:36:21] Scott: I think the other way you could do it too is you could do a 50% off, someone takes up on that, and then you offer something else at a deal. This way here you are going to cover your cost upfront. You’re going to get your shipping and some of the cost. Try that out. Play around with it. But the one thing I will say is you have to give it time and you have to give it a budget. You can’t say, “I’m just going to try it for a day.” You need to have a certain number of people go through that. What would you say, Chris, would be a good number of people to go through something before you could determine to make some changes?
[00:36:58] Chris: A few hundred.
[00:36:59] Scott: A few hundred.
[00:37:00] Chris: And that was the thing like, Scott, and this is one of the things that you and I talk about all the time. The reason that we slow played this, we’re spending $20 a day is because we know that these numbers do not always hold consistent. If we had run based on the numbers that we were getting the first day, we were paying like $0.08 a sale the first day. Obviously, that’s going to change over time as different people see it and interact with it and that costs generally picks up and then kind of comes back down as we start to fine tune it. We don’t want to just go all in and spend $500 in a single day budget. We want to see how this works over time with different people being exposed to it at different times of day over holidays, over all of those things so we can get kind of an average. Once we’ve gotten a couple of hundred people through it then we have a pretty good idea. Now, again, it’s going to depend on your conversion rate and all that kind of stuff for the science side of it. But as of right now, I think I said the number was like 563. We have 563 people click on the link at some point and we’ve had 64 people buy. I forget the numbers now.
A little over 10% purchase rate. That’s pretty good. I would feel comfortable starting to scale that up and in fact, that's actually what we did. We scaled it from 20 to 35. I’m not going to scale that to 500 because I’m not going to get Facebook that amount of runway until I see that it’s proving itself out. But a few hundred people, generally speaking, would make me feel comfortable. If we put 200 customers through that funnel, that would make me feel pretty comfortable in those numbers. Now we have made some tweaks along the way on the art, the completely non-scientific side of it, for example, that first upsell. We know that on Amazon one color of that vest sells a lot better than the other color of that vest. And the upsell that we had created was for the one that we had more of and we put about 100 people, 100 clicks through it that says, “You know, we haven’t had anybody take us up on that upsell. It's a really nice, it's a really well-selling product. It definitely is the next thing that they would want if they're interested in our lure.” Why isn't that working? So, we changed it to the other color and literally the next person through the funnel took us up on that.
[00:39:13] Scott: I know. Now, was that a coincidence? We don’t know.
[00:39:15] Chris: It was 100% coincidence, but we can start to make some of those kinds of changes even at this point and if we wanted to start to make some assumptions about that first landing page, the page where we’re actually taking their payment information, we could probably do that after 500 or 1,000 clicks. The longer we wait, the more statistically significant it is, the more we make the statisticians and the scientists happy. But at some point, we just have to kind of pull the trigger on it. I’d say if you had 200 or 300 people that ran through that funnel, that would be very consistent in my mind in terms of the data that you’re going to get out of that. So, if we had 1,000 clicks, that would make me feel comfortable at least on the frontend knowing what our conversion rate is going to be on that front end offer. Does that make sense?
[00:39:59] Scott: Yeah. It does. So, then I guess the next question would be where do you start to look at the conversion and the metrics and then what do we do, when do we do it?
[00:40:12] Chris: So, for me, and that’s the reason I kind of hedge that with customers and I said if we got 200 or 300 customers through that funnel, that’s when that would start to me and that’s double where we are, triple where we are at least because we’re at 65 or whatever so triple that it’d be 195. Close enough to 200 for me. But the reason that I’m saying that is because we want to know if we scale this, if I were to put more money into this, what is the thing that is giving me the least amount? What is the biggest lever that I can play with? And then test it again. So, if our conversion rate on that first page was 1%, that would be a concern to me because that is the bottleneck in terms of us getting our return on it.
[00:40:55] Scott: Right. Just to make people understand that, so if we’re only getting 1% on the take on the front, that also means that less people are seeing the second page and the third page. So, that’s the first place that you would want to look. We’re at about 11, 12, somewhere in that.
[00:41:15] Chris: So, don’t ask.
[00:41:17] Scott: It’s not terrible but then we would look at the next page and go, “Okay. The conversion on the next page is 6% on that uptake.” So, which one do we tweak first? Well, maybe what we do is we go, “Let’s look at the page and let’s see what we could tweak on that landing page.” Maybe it’s just not clear as far as what they’re getting. Maybe you have to change the title or the headline or maybe you put a countdown counter on it that you didn’t normally have because now you’re saying like this is a limited offer, some of those things, and then maybe you run another 100 hours’ worth of traffic and you go, “Oh, it’s now 15%. Wow. Okay.” Well, now at 15% that means that there’s more people coming through. Now maybe the 6% has bumped to 7% or maybe it went down so then we would then adjust that next page. So, I think it’s just taking the approach that we have to send traffic, we have to get eyeballs, we have to also look at the different components and see where we should be making the first adjustment.
[00:42:20] Chris: And this is the primary reason I don’t think anybody should start here. You could if you wanted to. If you are a glutton for punishment, you could start your entire business using this model and people do it. I would not feel comfortable doing that. The reason that we are doing this as a phase 2 is our sales on Amazon are paying for this. If we had zero effect, we wasted $500. We threw $500 into the wind, lit it on fire from an advertising perspective, it’s not food off our table. It’s not really money out of our pocket. Yes, it’s $500 that came from business but it’s not like cash that we’re spending if that makes sense. It’s cash flow but that’s going to get replenished. It’s not money that’s directly coming out of my pocket.
[00:43:00] Scott: And we’ve learned something.
[00:43:02] Chris: And we’ve got data back.
[00:43:03] Scott: And we’ve got customers.
[00:43:04] Chris: So, we have – well, not if we just lit $500 in the fire, right, if nobody converts.
[00:43:08] Scott: Right. Okay. You’re assuming that no one converts.
[00:43:10] Chris: But chances are even with an under optimized ad which we have, an under-optimized offer which we have, our first attempt at all of these things, we’re actually pretty close to breakeven. The next step for us is going to be to see how to scale this. And to do that, we have to figure out where the bottleneck is in terms of our profit or in terms of our sales. So, it might not be changing the Facebook ad because right now we’re paying less than a dollar to Facebook to acquire a customer. After you figure we’re actually getting back, right? What’s the math on that? It’s right around $3 if you’re just looking at it from an ad spend perspective.
[00:43:54] Scott: Right.
[00:43:56] Chris: $3. I don’t know. I can’t do the math but it’s more than $2.60. That’s all I know. But if we’re converting at 10% or 11% or whatever that is, that’s pretty good. Well, maybe it’s not that first part because 10% or 11% is pretty good on in any cold offer.
[00:44:13] Scott: Really good. Yeah.
[00:44:15] Chris: At least in my experience. I don’t know what everybody that runs free plus shipping gets but that’s pretty good for me. If I can get one out of every 10 people, think about that, Scott. The people, like you know the people in the middle of the mall that sell like Dead Sea stuff, could you imagine if they converted one out of every 10 people how much of that Dead Sea scrub that they would sell? Like, when you think about it that way that’s pretty good because that’s essentially what we’re doing. We’re like, “Hey, random person, here’s this thing,” you’re converting one out of every 10 people who stops when you say, “Hey, sir, I have a question.” That’s pretty good. So, maybe it’s not bad. Maybe it’s not bad. Maybe it’s the first upsell. Maybe the price is wrong. Maybe I didn’t do a good enough job of explaining why that’s the next thing that’s logical or maybe it’s just the wrong offer. Maybe you just have to switch those two upsells and maybe that’s my first test and we’ll see what happens but generally what I would say is start with the thing that’s doing the worst and move from there. Don’t say, “I need to change my Facebook ad because it’s not profitable.” You have to look at the numbers along the way and say, “Okay, where are we in this process?”
Just like when you’re diagnosing what’s wrong with an Amazon listing. If I’m getting thousands of visits, I don’t have a traffic problem. I have a conversion problem. Same thing here. If I’m getting lots of people to click on my Facebook ad and no one’s converting, there’s an issue with my landing page, there’s an issue with the offer or there’s an issue with the way it connects to the market message match between the landing page and the Facebook ad. So, we have to look at each of those steps and then pull the lever that’s going to give us the biggest potential in terms of return.
[00:45:47] Scott: Yeah. And the other thing is, I mean, again I don’t want to get too into the weeds here and we could go deeper but the other thing that we’re not even talking about is that we’re Facebook pixeling everyone that lands on that page. So, like you said, there’s like 570 or almost 600 people that clicked and landed on that other page. We have them pixeled so now we could be running a retargeting ad to all of those people that said, “Hey, you didn’t want that one. You want this one?” And then that maybe even something that we want to do now that we have that, and you know exactly how we would position that but basically you can now retarget all those people that were hot technically like prospects in a sense because they actually clicked and they landed somewhere. If they just were scrolling and they didn’t click anything, they wouldn’t have been interested so they’ve raised their hand in a sense and then we can then position another offer in front of them that might be a better offer.
[00:46:46] Chris: Or the same offer.
[00:46:47] Scott: Or the same offer. Maybe they just got busy.
[00:46:50] Chris: That sounds ridiculous. They landed on the landing page just like why would anybody ever buy more of the same even though we showed you guys or told you I guess. I didn’t show you but based on the numbers 84. What is that?
[00:47:02] Scott: That’s a heart.
[00:47:02] Chris: It’s over 20. No.
[00:47:04] Scott: I’m looking at a heart over the top of the trees.
[00:47:06] Chris: That’s a love truck stop I believe.
[00:47:09] Scott: It is.
[00:47:10] Chris: We sold 84 units to 65 people and literally they have to select the quantity that they want so it’s not like they came back and bought again. They bought two for whatever reason and in doing that we’re able to do that. But the same thing happens when they come to that page. They may be interested in the offer but their kid knocks over his Kool-Aid and so they exit out of the page on their mobile phone never to be seen again. Or they’re at work.
[00:47:43] Scott: On Facebook like they shouldn’t be.
[00:47:44] Chris: And their boss caught them, and they hear their boss walking around the corner and they close the page and then they’re gone. But they may still be interested in an offer. We have 500 people based on that. I think we did 64 sales so 499 whatever you want to call it, 500 that are still potential customers and one of the things that you see all the time in e-commerce and one of the biggest places that e-commerce stores miss out is in retargeting those potential customers. So, that may be our first next step while we’re trying to figure out the big lever to pull inside the funnel. Maybe we throw $30 at that audience. Now, 500 people is not a ton of people but as we continue to run this data, we’re going to basically at least double that.
[00:48:27] Scott: And we can create a look-alike audience from those 500 now.
[00:48:32] Chris: Right. Not that we had necessarily wanted to if they’re not our ideal customer if they don’t…
[00:48:35] Scott: Well, but if they clicked, you might say well let’s see. I mean…
[00:48:40] Chris: The answer is test it, right?
[00:48:41] Scott: Yeah. The sure one is the people that did buy, the 65. You'd go, “Oh, lookalike. Let's find more of those.” But let's wrap this up because we can keep going and there’s a ton of things that we’ve touched on that I think we’ve given people at least the roadmap and the simple form and really trying to understand what it means. You don’t have to understand all of the complexity of everything but just understand this. You need at least two to three products in my opinion before you would want to go down this route.
[00:49:19] Chris: I say at least three.
[00:49:21] Scott: Yup. And then from there, it needs to start with a very, very basic simple funnel with a front-end offer and that could be 50% off one item and then on the backend you have other things or a free plus shipping offer. Those are some easy ones to start with right away but the one thing that you want to know is what would your customer, your ideal customer says, “Yes, I want that?” And one easy way of doing this is if there are products that you thought about launching but you didn’t because they’re oversaturated in your market and they might even be low-priced items that you don’t want to sell on Amazon because you don’t want to get into that pricing more, they don’t have a lot of margins, that might be your free plus shipping offer and that’s actually how we were…
[00:50:09] Chris: It’s an easy place to start.
[00:50:10] Scott: That was how we were able to find some of ours. So, that’s what I would do. I would start to look at those. Who cares about if you’re going to sell that on Amazon. Forget about that for a second but you can definitely see that it’s a popular item that people are selling on Amazon because then if you offer a free plus shipping on Facebook, you’re probably going to take some takers and that’s where that would lead them into your funnel. So, I think just to kind of leave you guys with that. I think having you guys understand what a funnel is, not that you have to understand everything, but this is where you should be thinking or you should be focusing in phase 2 and this is where also you’re building another asset, another channel that your business will really use in the future but also, you’re building that asset that your business will be worth more in the future as well. You have so much more control when you have these assets. So, Chris, anything else you want to wrap up with before we sign off and continue on our journey here? We killed about, I don’t know, it’s about 50 miles on this one.
[00:51:11] Chris: I just want to let everybody know that we are officially in Georgia.
[00:51:13] Scott: We just crossed. Welcome to Georgia. Home of the peaches. Anything you want to wrap up with?
[00:51:21] Chris: No. I mean, I think the biggest thing is, one, don’t get overwhelmed by this. It is a lot easier than it sounds at first glance especially if you’re using a tool like ClickFunnels. Two, expect to fail and if you succeed then that’s even better like do not expect this thing to be a magic bullet. Do not expect this thing to be a printing press for money upfront but as we start to make these small changes we’re going to start to see it produce more and more money. But the ultimate reason that we’re doing this upfront is to get a list of customers, people who have actually bought from us and that we know what they bought so that on the backend we can say, “Hey, do you want this?” And then sell that to them at full price at a later date, and we can actually do that.
Everybody that came in that didn’t take us up on that upsell, we can show them that same product again later and get them to buy it and they’ve already seen it and they may be at a different place in their journey and now we still have their credit card on file. They’re still our customer and we can get that $19 or $20 or $50 from them depending on where they are. So, focus on the small things here. Just keep in mind that if you have three or four or five products, pick the ones that are going to go together, figure out what your budget is going to be and test it. Try it. Give it a good faith effort. Put in a little bit of time into running the Facebook ad probably more than we did. Put in a little bit of time into creating those landing pages and then test it and say, “Look, I’m going to put $400 or $500 to it,” and then I’m going to learn something from it and that’s the biggest thing.
[00:52:54] Scott: Yeah. You’re learning.
[00:52:55] Chris: Even if we had essentially lit that $500 on fire and we got one sale out of it, well, we then know that that landing page doesn’t work or that offer doesn’t work, and we have to figure out where that thing is broken before we test it again. This is not a home run by any stretch of the imagination, but it is something that will consistently work and if we can learn those lessons we’re going to improve it. That’s really what it comes down to with anything related to selling off Amazon. And even selling on Amazon, anytime we look at our listings, we need to figure out what we can improve and that’s where we should be focusing our time.
[00:53:32] Scott: Yeah. Like, as Chris is saying like when you’re doing this you’re learning but the goal is to get it profitable of course and then once you get something that’s starting to work, guess what, you start adding more fuel to the fire. You start adding more money. If you got a dollar in or you put a dollar in and you get two or three back, who wouldn’t do that, right? And that’s really what we’re looking to do because even though like you cover your cost from that first ad spend or that first funnel and you cover cost, think about all the other things that that customer that bought from you could buy in the future, future things that you’re going to launch. You’ll have that list so now when you’re going to push products on Amazon despite the algorithm, guess what, you got a customer list of people that bought from you. So, I just want to really stress that.
[00:54:21] Scott: So, Chris, that is going to wrap this episode up and this carcast and that we’ve survived once again as we’re holding mics driving at about 75 miles an hour.
[00:54:31] Chris: Everybody’s looking at us.
[00:54:32] Scott: Everybody is looking at us kind of weird. It’s okay. We’re producing content here and we’re helping people so that’s what we want to do. So, this episode is 527 so you can find the show notes at TheAmazingSeller.com/527. Again, I’ll remind you if you are in the beginning stages of even just getting started, the boot camp would be my recommendation for you. It’s the foundation of really building a brand. Check out TheAmazingSeller.com/Bootcamp and you get all the details there and, yeah, that is pretty much going to wrap it up. So, Chris, you’re ready to wrap this baby up officially?
[00:55:09] Chris: Let’s do it.
[00:55:10] Scott: All right. Guys, remember, as always, I’m here for you, I believe in you and I’m rooting for you, but you have to, you have to, come on, say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, say it going 75. You ready, Chris, on the count of three?
[00:55:24] Chris: Let’s do it.
[00:55:24] Scott: One, two, three. Take action!
[00:55:26] Chris: Take action!
[00:55:28] Scott: Have an awesome amazing day, guys, and we’ll see you right back here on the next episode.
[00:55:38] Chris: We’re going.
[00:55:39] Scott: We’re good?
[00:55:40] Chris: We’re good.
[00:55:41] Scott: All right. Test. Test. Check. Check.
[00:55:43] Chris: Checkity-check.
[00:55:45] Scott: As we’re driving along 85, not going 85. We’re going about 75 but we are on Route 85.
[00:55:53] Chris: Are you a “rawt” or “root” person?
[00:55:54] Scott: I’m a “root”.
[00:55:55] Chris: I’m a “root”.
[00:55:55] Scott: Okay. Isn’t “rawt” isn’t that like Canadian?
[00:55:58] Chris: I don’t know it’s big in Texas too. It’s “rawt” this and “rawt” that. It’s a harder sound.
[00:56:03] Scott: It is. It’s not as smooth as a “root”. I wonder if there is a right or wrong. I don’t think there is.
[00:56:09] Chris: I don’t think there is. Language is completely made up anyway.
[00:56:14] Scott: Are you ready?
[00:56:14] Chris: Yeah.
[00:56:16] Scott: What episode is this again? 527?
[00:56:18] Chris: 527.
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