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…well one of them anyway and that is sponsored product ads, pay-per-click, keyword ranking, mistakes to avoid and I’m going to be talking with my good friend Mr. Jeff Cohen because he’s immersed himself into this sponsored product ads world since, his team and his company has created this tool called Ignite.
So they know a lot about what people are getting hang up on and some of these mistakes to avoid that’s why I want to have him back on and I just love chatting with Jeff and you are going to hear in this conversation that I had with him that we went on a little bit of a rant here and there and they are good rants by the way because he’s a lot like me. I really feel strongly about certain areas of business and in this case we are talking about pay-per-click. So there is some deep discussions that we go into and even some ranking factors and our thoughts on whether Amazon gives extra love for spending money, little bit of a debate there we could have not just Jeff and I but I think anyone would agree on that.
But I am not going to take up too much time here on the intro because I want you guys to listen and we did go on for a little bit longer than I wanted to but I didn’t want to stop just because of a timer. I wanted to give you the value as we were recording this. So if you guys want the show notes to this episode head over to theamazingseller.com/387. And then I’m also going to link up the resource for sponsored product ads that we did with myself, Chris Shaffer and with Jeff and you can go through that training for free over at theamazingseller.com/ppc and you can grab all of those goodies over there and really just take your time going through this, understanding the setup, the structure and really what goes into a successful Amazon sponsored products ads campaign and also you are going to hear me talk a lot about this, what it’s like to launch using sponsored product ads so lots of different things we talk about.
[00:02:08] Scott: I also need to let you know that I screwed up with the audio. Yap my fault so I’m just going to prepare you for my quality. I came off of a little mini vacation, forgot to turn my settings back on my Skype microphone connection there and I recorded through the internal microphone so that’s a total no, no for a podcaster by the way. But didn’t realize it till after the fact. It’s a great episode, I didn’t want to just scrap it because of the audio. The audio was good enough to listen to but it’s not my typical audio quality so again, my bad.
Anyway guys I’m going to stop talking so you guys can listen to this conversation that I had with my good friend Mr. Jeff Cohen, enjoy.
[00:02:57] Scott: Well hey Jeff, welcome back to the podcast man how are things going?
[00:03:01] Jeff: Things are going great Scott thanks for asking and thanks for having me back on.
[00:03:05] Scott: Yeah actually I think the last time I had you on was before we actually physically met in person. Am I wrong on that?
[00:03:12] Jeff: Well we had met last year.
[00:03:15] Scott: Well that’s true but I think we actually sat down and had a beer this time.
[00:03:20] Jeff: We did, I think we had not only a beer but we were able to go deep in some podcasting with some friends I was able to introduce you to and it was a fun time at a show because we had somebody on who was an original podcaster, not on, at the bar with us who was an original podcaster and so we were able to dig deep into how it used to be versus how it is now.
[00:03:48] Scott: Well yeah isn’t that the truth? I mean we can talk about Google and what they did years ago and all kinds of changes now which happens to be Amazon is that same thing. Podcasting how that’s grown. Actually it's funny, a little short story here for you. I actually spoke to the guy that you are talking about JB, I talked to him yesterday actually just to talk, catch up and we really hit it off. He’s just a great guy, he’s been in the space a long time, he’s a great mentor for a lot of different people and just mindset and just motivation and all that stuff. I’ll actually have him here on the podcast soon so I’m excited that you introduced me to him.
And again anyone listening right now this is how things happen. We are at this event Sellers Summit actually Steve Chou's event hanging out, just chilling and Jeff was there, we actually were right by the ocean which was cool and had a couple of drinks just talking and then you brought this guy in that you had met a long time ago and we just hit it off. It was just a great time and it had nothing to do with Amazon really at that time we were just riffing, it was a lot of fun.
[00:04:55] Jeff: Yeah I was actually speaking with some friends over the 4th of July weekend and they were asking me with all my travel if I get sick of it and I said that I don’t get sick of it and the reason why is because it’s the conversation I don’t know that I’m going to have that gets me the most excited. So things like that where I was just supposed to have a drink with him and then you happen to be there so we all ended up catching up and it leads to good things for all people.
[00:05:25] Scott: Yeah, absolutely, love it. He’s a great guy and now I’m grateful now that I get to hang out with him a little bit virtually and who knows in the future maybe even again we’ll have in person chat but just a great guy and someone that I think myself personally I’ll be following because he’s just energized like I am. He’s just a great guy through and through. Anyway, I wanted to have you back on because we haven’t really had you back on since we talked about this whole pay-per-click thing.
We did a whole series, Chris and I jumped on, you guys you kicked it off with our Facebook Live, you and Brandon that is, and we did a whole pay-per-click training and there’s been a lot of things that have happened since then as far as just people getting started in this pay-per-click world, sponsored product ads that is. I just want to have you back on and go through some of those things that you are seeing that people are either making mistakes or they are just are not clear on and I wanted to cover those so this way here we can help people not make these mistakes and have a better chance of succeeding when they get started in the sponsored products ads.
That’s really what I want to dig in today. So where do you want to start buddy?
[00:06:35] Jeff: Yeah I think the best place to start is… Originally when we talked about this we had the idea of let’s talk about getting started but the truth of the matter is that most sellers are not getting started. They’ve already done sponsored ads in some way, shape or form so they are either restarting a campaign or they are going into a campaign to try to figure out how to optimize it. So I don’t want to alienate the people that have never done sponsored ads because I think this information still helps them but there is a lot of people who are like… We get the question a lot, “Okay I signed up for Ignite, it’s not working.”
Typically when we are able to dig into people’s accounts we see a couple of things that all sellers should be aware of. So the first one is structure and I think the statement that Brandon used was structure is 10% of your campaign but it’s where you want to spend 90% of your time because if you set up your campaign structure correctly, then everything else is going to flow as you move forward.
But if you don’t set that up correctly then you start to create a lot of problems for yourself and so the easiest campaign structure to explain is a single ASIN structure. So you have a campaign and you have ad groups and we are not going to get into all the hairy details of these but we can refer people back to the training that we did and you want a single ASIN to a campaign and the reason why you want that is because you want to control your budget at the campaign level. And what we’ve seen with a lot of sellers is they are coming into this and they are trying to sell similar products in the same campaign.
[00:08:40] Jeff: I’ve even seen a few issues with variations so let’s talk about that. Had a seller who had two parent products and then three variations for each product but the variation was a size variation so it was a two pack, six pack, twelve pack, twenty four pack. So my initial inclination was to put all of the variations into one campaign but I quickly went back and reassessed my suggestion and now they are only running their campaign for the six pack. When you have variations by package size, the reason why you want to pick one variation to run your campaign against is that when we were running the 24 pack, their ads were showing up for a $96 product.
Their ability to create a conversion for a $96 product is a lot harder than their ability to create a conversion for a $23.95 product. So when you are thinking of variations, there is a tendency to want to put everything into a campaign but what you really want to do is put the information into the campaign that’s going to best lead to a conversion. Let’s look at color variations. Let’s say you have a product with 15 colors, maybe you only run your sponsored ad for your top three selling colors.
[00:10:16] Scott: That makes sense but here is the question though on that. If you are launching the product, how do you know what is the top seller? Are you going to look at your competitors and what they are doing or are you going to then run all three and then see which one is the winner?
[00:10:38] Jeff: So you could run all three and see which one is the winner. I think that’s what Chris would suggest, it’s all about trial. You could also look at your competitors and use that as an art part of this because we talked earlier about how is art and science but what I want sellers to really think about is what you are trying to do and what you are trying to do is maximize your impressions. So you want to get the most number of impressions possible and then you want to maximize your sales and the data in between those two points is what you are going to end up making your decisions on.
And so if you start adding too many products you are giving Amazon… If you have all these products in one campaign, you are giving Amazon the ability to then decide which product is being shown with which ad.
[00:11:35] Scott: And that makes sense because people will get overwhelmed with this part of it and this is just from feedback that I’ve gotten from people that are just starting. I’m saying not starting selling but starting to really get serious about pay-per-click. It’s like okay so I’ve got this one campaign, just to give that structure a bit little more detail, so we are talking about you have a main level campaign for the garlic press but you have different colors of the garlic press and let’s just say we start with the silver one because we think that that’s going to be the one that people are going to be looking for the stainless steel one.
So we set that up and whether we are using Ignite or not we are going to set it up this way. It just happens that Ignite automates this and makes this really super simple to set up. You click a button and it makes these three campaigns for you. So we have a broad, we have a phrase and we have an exact. Basically three different buckets under one main campaign and then from there we are going to usually start with the broad and then from there we are going to be able to see or if you are using Ignite it’s going to show you what is converting, what isn’t. It’s going to give you suggestions and then it’s going to move those into buckets depending on the data.
But let’s not even take it that far yet, let’s just say we are still at the broad level and like you are saying now we’ve got three variations in there… If what I’m hearing right is you are saying that keep those variations under the same campaign. Is this correct?
[00:13:00] Jeff: Yeah because if you spread them out across three different campaigns, the campaigns will actually… You don’t compete against each other with bids but you do start to compete against each other with impressions. So that’s another big mistake that a lot of sellers make is that they start stealing impressions from themselves and they are not able to get enough data within any subset to make a qualified decision.
[00:13:30] Scott: Yeah and I agree 100%. I look at it as like keeping things clean, keeping them organized, it's easier to manage, all of that stuff but like you said if you start spreading them out into different campaigns they are separate in a sense and then like you said they are not competing necessarily but you are going to start taking away impressions from those other SKUs. I always like to start it out like simple. So yes you might have three different variations of three different colors but again you have to start somewhere with some type of direction.
I personally, this is just me personally it doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong, I would try to find the one that I felt was going to be the top seller. The other ones I’m carrying just because I know other people are going to want those choices. But again I could be talking to Chris right now and he could say, “Well let’s just run those all three together and see what the data says.” And I get it, I’ve done it both ways and both of them work. It’s just when I have that idea that I know this stainless steel one is probably going to be the top seller because that’s what I’ve done my research on, that’s usually the one I want to drive sales, I want to start ranking. One thing is if I start ranking then it’s going to expose myself to the red and the blue and the yellow. Does that make sense?
[00:14:44] Jeff: Yeah absolutely and that’s what you want. You want your buyers to see… That’s the whole point of variations. You want your buyers to see options once they get to the product detail page and so the odds of somebody typing… Now if you had a stainless steel garlic press and a plastic garlic press, that is an instance where you’d probably want to have two separate campaigns but if you have a stainless steel garlic press and then maybe a powder-coated stainless steel garlic press, they are still stainless steel garlic presses and so the product the customer is looking for is still the same. Therefore then you want them in the same campaign and that’s the easiest way to describe it to a seller.
[00:15:36] Scott: Yeah I agree. I’ve got a question for you. It’s actually something we are working on right now and we are hitting our head against the wall. I’m just curious this is totally random too by the way, this is like you and I sitting at that table having that beer, looking at the ocean…
[00:15:50] Jeff: Yeah, you are going to try to stop me…
[00:15:52] Scott: I’m not going to try to stop. I’m really not going to do that but it could. I’m just curious your thoughts on this. We’ve got three products which we are targeting pretty much the same keyword in a sense, the same buyer, the same keyword and everything, same category these products are in and it’s crazy because I went aggressive. I said, “I'm going to bid up to $5 just to really see the data quick,” and I did this on all three of these. Now you would say, “Okay well you did that, they are not going to show all at once because you are in the same category at the same budget in the set.” And I’m okay with that.
I was able to get sponsored product ads page one, I was able to get my product on the first position and I didn’t spend $5 by the way either, I think we only spent maybe $2 or $1.75 something like that but the crazy thing is that I said, “Let me see if I can get product B to do the same thing.” Not a variation, it’s a separate product, same keywords in the backend, same optimization, did the same exact thing and I can’t get that to rank on page one of sponsored product ads. Any thoughts on that?
[00:17:02] Jeff: I met a guy at Amazon, I was at the FBA Boost Conference up in New York a couple of weeks ago and I was able to sit down with a bunch of the people on the sponsored product ad team and one of the automatic assumptions that sellers make is to lower their bid to maximize ACOS. What you did is actually exactly what he recommended which is that before you lower your bid you raise your bid and the logic behind it is that search position drives conversion and so I think there is one of two things. One would be that for some reason Amazon just isn’t seeing you as being relevant for that term or two, you need to raise your bid even more.
[00:17:59] Scott: Yeah and that was my next move actually. I was like, “You know what, screw it, I’m going to go $10,” just to see what happens and I mean literary Jeff we did this… I did it in the first part of it I was like, “I’m only bidding fifty cents or seventy cents,” and I was going really non-aggressive and then I said, “I’m going to go aggressive here and I’m just going to see what it’s going to take me to rank in sponsored product ads.” For people listening I’m not talking about organically I’m talking about in the sponsored ads positioning, how long it will take and literally I kept my eye on it for the next one hour and within 20 minutes I was there.
So it literally happened that fast but, going back, I said, “Okay, now let me pause that,” so I’m not competing against myself even if that’s a chance that’s happening and let me go ahead and do the same exact thing with a similar product that I want to do the exact same thing for and I did it and it wasn’t the same.
[00:18:50] Jeff: Amazon uses word vectors to determine products and relevance more than just the titles and search that are there. It could be a number of things and that was what this guy from Amazon and I were talking about was that Amazon is this kind of black hole so you don’t know when you are bidding what bid position you are in. You know that in Google and what I took away from him is that suggested bid is the mean and so you are bidding the suggested bid you are bidding somewhere in the five to seven range for that product.
And so what you did was you went for the extreme and I think it’s a tactic that sellers have to experiment with to see because there is a lot of things at play within sponsored ads. Let’s say for instance you did that and you were actually doing that not to just get data but you were doing that to actually generate sales. Let’s say you were at $5 a click, let’s say you had $100 per day budget and you are actually paying $5 per click, your budget is not going to last that long. So I might be winning the second or the third or the fifth position but as the day goes on Amazon is looking to serve your budget. That’s their goal, their goal is to maximize your budget, generate sales for you so you keep spending more.
The budgets are changing throughout the day and therefore the availability of positions are changing throughout the day. Now we are getting into some complicated stuff for sellers to think about but you have to understand how the bidding system on Amazon works and I am not claiming to know that. So I just want to be very clear because nobody really knows how that works but I think what’s important to take away is that there are a lot of factors that go into play that’s going to determine your position and your bid.
And so there is a couple of things that I do differently now than what I did even three or four months ago is I’ve learned more. So one is I now have a very low auto-targeted campaign. For a while we were recommending not to do that so I have an auto-targeted campaign that runs at fifty cents and the purpose of that campaign is when you are looking in your search term report you see ASINs.
[00:21:25] Scott: That’s a good question too. I’m glad you brought that up I got a question on that, keep going.
[00:21:28] Jeff: And so when you see an ASIN that means that you are showing up on a product detail page for your competitor and if you scroll down on a product detail page you’ll see a row of products and it says sponsored ads. I want to show up in as many of those locations as possible for as cheap as possible so that’s why I continue to run that auto campaign because that’s the only way to do it.
[00:21:55] Scott: Well and that’s the question I had because I had a question come in actually I answered it and it was on that. It was like, “I pulled my search term report, I see these ASINs coming up, should I be targeting this ASINs?” And my suggestion was no because number one it’s against terms of service at least that I know of. You can go in there and directly, and correct me if I’m wrong Jeff I mean I don’t believe you can take an ASIN and then use that to target as a keyword but doing what you are doing Amazon is technically doing it so you are in the okay because they are then putting you on those pages and that’s why it’s being pulled up. Is that correct?
[00:22:31] Jeff: Yeah Amazon sponsored ads is the only place where you can attack your competitor by brand name or by showing up on their product detail page so you are correct, I cannot create a keyword that is that ASIN. I can only do it through that auto-targeting campaigns but Amazon will allow me to compete against my competitors using auto-targeting campaigns. Now, we are pretty experienced Amazon sellers so the majority of time that we go to Amazon we actually go to Amazon and we do our search. Have you ever gone to Google and followed a link from Google into Amazon?
[00:23:14] Scott: Yeah I have actually.
[00:23:15] Jeff: So it’s a totally different user experience. You get either ads or product placements on the top of the page and so as a seller we have to be thinking of all of the different ways that people are using and getting to Amazon and this is taking advantage of some of the tools that Amazon is allowing us to do. Now auto-targeting campaigns still need to be profitable for you so I’m not suggesting that you do these at an unprofitable level but what happens is let’s say you are in a very competitive term, where you have to pay $5 a click, you might be able to actually get a few through this auto-targeted campaign at fifty or twenty five cents a click. It’s going to really help your ACOS because you can give up a lot more clicks before that conversion than you can at $5 a click.
So sellers have to be thinking of this hybrid approach. To recap these two suggestions, one is to run an auto-targeted campaign at a really low click. Do what you are comfortable with, twenty five cents, fifty cents, I don’t know that I would go much higher than fifty cents and you are looking for data in this campaign but you are really looking to just get some low hanging fruit that could be some opportunities by showing up on your competitor’s product detail page. And the other suggestion is that when your ACOS when your advertising cost of sale looks a little out of wack meaning that you are shooting for 25%, 30%, 35% and you are at 60%, don’t automatically assume that the answer is to lower your bid.
Now I said to the guy at Amazon this works to your advantage for you to recommend this to me, right?
[00:25:10] Scott: Right, spend more money!
[00:25:13] Jeff: You recommendation to do this is to spend more money and his response made a lot of sense. He goes, he said, “Think about how you look at organic sales. We want to be in position one over position three. We want position three over position five. We need to look at sponsored ads as the same way. If you can get into the first three positions your ability to drive clicks and conversions is significantly greater than if you are in position 15 on the page.” And so if you are able to raise your bid in some incremental amount, you might actually be able to lower your ACOS and so this is where it really becomes an art because the science side, Brandon would tell you that the mathematics tell you to lower your bid to make your ACOS work.
But when you lower your bid you actually change your bid position and you might regress a little bit before you actually improve. So as a seller, sponsored ads is not the simplest thing that we’ll do and it does require a little bit of thinking of what your strategy and what you want your strategy to be and these are, let’s just be honest, these are advanced tactics. So you can do a much more simplified approach to how you manage sponsored ads, get it up and running, get your suggestions from a tool like Ignite, make some changes, be very happy that you are hitting your target ACOS and just continue to rock and roll for lack of a better term.
But if you want to dig into this deeper and you want to find a way to drive more sales, these are the things you have to think about in the places you need to play.
[00:27:00] Scott: Yeah and honestly ACOS to me in the beginning when I’m launching isn’t as important to be honest with you and I know for a lot of people it is because you are looking at profitability right out of the gate. I’m looking at well, let’s see, a year ago we would spend $1,500 easy on launching a product and that’s with a launch service or giving away your units, FBA fees, not even making any money on your units at all and we were okay with that. But when we say we are willing to spend $1,500 on sponsored product ads and not really be profitable we are like, “Whoa, wait a minute, I don’t want to do that. I want to be profitable.”
But the thing is to me and this is just my take it on it is number one, it’s going to get me exposure immediately so I can start driving sales which then will help me start to rank. I also have a hunch, I don’t know Jeff I mean what’s your thoughts on this, if I’m spending money with Amazon consistently, do you think that they are going to give me any extra love when it comes to ranking or any other maybe visibility? And I know that this is speculation but let’s go there for a second. I mean I’ve got a buddy of mine Dom Sugar I’ve had him on the show, that’s his whole thing. He’s like, “If I spend money now, I’m going to show them that I’ve really invested in that, they are going to also help me to start to rank for those keywords. Yes they want me to be profitable and yes they want me to see conversions but they are also going to look that I’m spending something.” What’s your thoughts on that?
[00:28:35] Jeff: So I remember this conversation coming up ten years ago in the Goggle world that you would cut back your Google adword spending and then you would see a change in your organic ranking and you would automatically assume that the one is connected to the other. There is the conspiracy side in me that says, “Of course that makes a lot of sense why wouldn’t it work like that?” And then there is the other side of me that says, “That’s nothing but trouble if that ever comes out.” Amazon and Google, look at the number of employees that they’ve had over the history of their companies. These are 20-year old companies, I have to believe if they were doing something like that something would have leaked in some way or shape or form by now that would give people the…
We still have never heard anything from Google that that has happened and they’ve had so many employees go through their system. It’s just hard to believe that that would be there but I have also been known to be naïve at times.
[00:29:51] Scott: I don’t know. I mean I’m not saying it’s 100% but the algorithm is so complex. There is so many different factors that go into it. Is one of them pay-per-click spend at all? I don’t know, I don’t know if that’s it.
I do know this. Who was I talking to? I was talking to someone recently and they spend a ton of money… Oh, I know. I had him on Jason Barry, he was at Seller Summit. I don’t know if you’ve Jason. Great guy, runs a massive company and helps manage a mass company, Fortune 500 company. And after they were spending a ton of money, not even necessarily being profitable like spending a lot of money, they got a phone call from Amazon and one of their sponsored product ads like, I guess agents or whatever. They wanted to assign them their own pay-per-click guy to help them manage it because they're spending so much money. So you know what I mean? That makes me think then you're noticed, you're noticed that you're spending money. Does it play into the algorithm? I don't know. But again, it's speculation. I'm just…
[00:30:54] Jeff: It's a great debate that that will probably never be answered, and I think that if you are driving… Listen, I think Amazon has been very clear about one thing through their history. And you talk about it, and I talk about it, we both share it from stage, sales drives rank. And I think there are a lot of other things that go into that rank; inventory, availability, your history as a seller, but ultimately, if your product is selling and people like the product that they're buying, your rank improves. And could using sponsored ads have some part of that factor?
Maybe. But if it does, is that a big part? No. Because for how long have we been not running sponsored ads and we've been ranking our products? So, it’s not a requirement of the system but it's a requirement of the system today because if you're not there, your sales are going to other people and Amazon is giving away more and more of their real estate to sponsored ads, making it harder and harder for you because position one isn’t position one. Position one is actually positioned four. Because the first three are sponsored ads. So you're already at a disadvantage if your only ranking organically from the get go.
[00:32:24] Scott: Yeah, I agree. I think sales are a huge factor in it, and then running sponsored product ads you are doing that to get sales. But I guess my point was is even though I'm not profitable on the ACOS…
[00:32:40] Jeff: You are showing love.
[00:32:41] Scott: Yeah, I'm showing love. But then also I believe then because people don't take this consideration, they only look at the ACOS. They go, “Okay, I spent this, I brought in this many sales, my ACOS is terrible.” But they don't see how many organic sales. They don't figure that into the equation. Did that help you rate organically somewhere? And if it did we're not figuring that into our ACOS. I guess that’s…
[00:33:05] Jeff: That's getting a lot more conversation lately it's called the halo effect. So for people that don't understand marketing and don't have a marketing background, the halo effect, is when something occurs today and you benefit from it in the future. And so it's been proven that a bump in your sales from sponsored ads, or from a lightning deal or a Prime Day deal or something like that, will lead to future sales.
Now those future sales occur for a couple of reasons. One, your organic rank improves and so you can track that with a tool like Scope or you can track that manually and you can start to see on your keywords. And we're going to get back to keywords here in a minute but you can see on your main keywords, is your position improving? And then if you're seeing that your main position is improving on your keywords, that is then driving your future organic sales. So in a closed box environment, you know your baseline of sales.
So let's say you're selling five garlic presses per day, you start running sponsored ads and you start averaging three sales a day with sponsored ads, so now you're selling eight. But then you start to see your organic rank improve so you actually start selling 10 a day. So your organic sales have now gone from five to seven, and so what you're talking about is the halo effect. Theoretically, if I turn my sponsored ads off, do I maintain seven organic sales a day or how am I giving credit to those two new organic sales to the sponsored sales that are helping me get that extra boost?
And that's what a seller that is really trying to look at all the numbers is saying is, “Okay, I'm averaging three a day, I started running…” Let’s use the same numbers. “I'm averaging five a day, I started running sponsored ads, I'm now averaging organically, seven a day.” Those extra two sales are somewhat attributable, not 100% but somewhat attributable to the fact that you're running those sponsored ads. So in addition to the profitability from those three sponsored ad sales, you have some profit from those two additional organic sales that need to be thought about.
[00:35:44] Scott: Yeah, yeah. Again, it's one of those things it's hard to calculate. But, that's why I mean, for me I was kind of go back to the grand opening of a store. You have to allow a budget to be able to promote your stuff. Back in the day, what eight months ago, a year ago, you know…
[00:36:03] Jeff: Or yesterday.
[00:36:05] Scott: Or yesterday. It was kind of like well, you can just go to a group that people are willing to buy a product in exchange for a review. Like that was okay, it was fine. Now it's like well you either build your own launch list, which we’re fan of and then run sponsored product ads like that's the formula. And obviously finding products that are not overly competitive because then you just need to have deeper pockets, and you have to have just a longer runway in order to do that.
[00:36:36] Jeff: Excellent.
[00:36:38] Scott: So let's kind of get back to… Is there any other like mistakes that you've been seeing since kind of doing this? And I love it that you brought up like the auto campaign too, just kind of go back there really quickly. I used to say like that was the way I would start so I could start collecting the data after I talked to you and Brandon, you got me rethinking it like, “Okay, maybe the manual is better.” But then I still would use the auto. But I would use the auto to kind of cleanup or kind of find the low hanging fruit, and that would be just the… I still do it.
I have a budget of maybe like $10 or $15 a day at like 15 or 30 cents a click. And I'm getting impressions every day. I'm getting clicks and I'm getting some sales. It's not crazy numbers but it's there and it's stuff I wouldn't have had if I didn't do it and I'm not paying a lot for it. So it just makes sense. But, anyway, I'm glad you brought that up. Let's talk about… Anything else that you see or that you've seen that we can kind of bring to the surface and then help people so this where they don't make these mistakes or they have a little bit better vision moving forward.
[00:37:36] Jeff: Yeah, let's go back to keywords. I know we spent a lot of time on this, I think you did a whole Facebook live just on this, it's in your little mini course.
[00:37:48] Scott: Yeah. That said, I'll just give you a link to that. It’s theamazingseller.com/ppc. If you go to that, you’ll have all the training there Jeff then Brandon were on the first session, and then Chris and I did a session every single day for the whole week. It's all recorded, it's up there and you guys can check that out. So theamzingseller.com/ppc. So, go ahead Jeff.
[00:38:09] Jeff: Okay. So, keywords. Keywords are just to keep everybody on the same page. Keywords, are terms that you tell Amazon are important to your product. Search terms, are the terms that a user is searching for. So the keyword is garlic press, and the search term is stainless steel garlic press. And so in a broad campaign, Amazon sees that you want to have your ad served for the term garlic press and the user type send stainless steel garlic press, so Amazon is going to serve your ad to connect the two. Now, one of the biggest complaints that we get from people who say… There's two complaints that we get from Ignite, and you know I'm an honest guy, so I'm going to tell you what those complaints are. Number one is that I guess they both work around the idea that Ignite is not working. And the two biggest issues that we see is one keywords and two, suggestions.
So let's just talk about keywords right now and then we'll talk about suggestions. I'll tell you about an update that we just made that I know you'll be excited about. With keywords, you have… So we talked about campaign structure and setting up your campaigns, your ad groups and such. The keywords, is the next biggest part of that. And it's really important that you have keywords that describe your product. And so sellers make two mistakes. They're either too generic or they're too specific and they start to create what we call overlapping keywords. So, too generic. Too generic for a garlic press would be the word garlic.
Okay, so if I'm just using the word garlic, I'm way too generic. And it kind of seems simple but it's a mistake that a lot of people make. They’ll just have the word garlic and they'll have the word press, and they're looking for Amazon to create those two. And so what happens is is that they start a campaign, it's for a garlic press, their keywords are garlic and press, and they come in the next day and they say, “I have a whole bunch of impressions but I have no clicks.”
[00:40:39] Scott: Yeah.
[00:40:41] Jeff: But when you go into your search term report and what you're going to see is that when you look for garlic, you're going to see garlic juice. You're going to see a bunch of terms that just don't describe what your product does. And so you need to come up with keywords that actually describe what your product does but then you don't want those keywords to overlap. So let me explain that. So garlic press describes what my product does but stainless steel garlic press isn't necessary because Amazon will use the word garlic press, and add stainless steel in a broad term.
And so if I have a keyword of garlic press and a keyword of stainless steel garlic press then what's going to happen is I'm actually going to… I like to use the word steel but essentially overlap my impressions. And garlic press is still going to show for stainless steel garlic press but stainless steel garlic press is also going to show for that term and I'm not going to get enough data to determine whether to move that to a phrase or an exact match.
And another mistake that I see sellers make, I was using the word garlic and press, we'll see a seller actually use the word, stainless steel as their seed keyword. And so I walked into an account I was trying to help them out, and this is exactly what I saw if I was using garlic press as the example and not their product, but their keywords would have been garlic press, stainless and steel. And so they were getting a ton of impressions.
Now, typically what happens at Amazon if you're going to get a lot of impressions in the first day or two, and then you're going to see nothing. Because Amazon's is going to say there's not any relevance for what's going on. And so you really have to either use a tool like Scope, Ignite makes some keyword suggestions that doesn't require a Scope subscription or just use your own common sense and get your keywords to actually describe your product, but not overlap. So not overlap. So I can use the word garlic press and I can use the word garlic mincer. And that's not overlapping keywords. But the only way for me to have done that with Amazon would have been the use the word garlic, right?
[00:43:19] Scott: Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:20] Jeff: So from my seed, I think you guys call them, seed keywords, I would want to call it garlic press, garlic mincer and then I've got two seed keywords that are going to give me all of the variations that I would want, and people like numbers. So look for look for 10 to 15 of these words that describe your product but if you only have four then that's okay and if you have 25, that's okay. But, if you look at those keywords and they are clearly overlapping, then you want to kind of pick one and you want to pick the one that's the most broad.
[00:44:04] Scott: Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:44:07] Jeff: So, garlic press, stainless steel garlic press, the most broad is garlic press. I don't need to use stainless steel garlic press.
[00:44:14] Scott: Okay. So, let's kind of work on that then really quickly. So if someone's going after garlic press but they want stainless steel in there, okay? But they want to press as their seed keyword, so, if what I'm hearing correctly, is you're saying then use garlic press. And then how would you get stainless steel in there if you didn't repeat garlic press?
[00:44:36] Jeff: So I would make a… For that, I would maybe make a phrase and use stainless steel garlic press in my phrase.
[00:44:46] Scott: So maybe your phrases would be the extenders in a sense?
[00:44:49] Jeff: Yes.
[00:44:50] Scott: But if you did something like, “Okay, so we're going to use garlic press.” Then you do garlic mincer, you do garlic bag, you do all those things. But any time you want to go off of garlic press, you're going to put that into a phrase?
[00:45:00] Jeff: Right. Or what I might also do is I might do a campaign negative keyword for what my product is not.
[00:45:07] Scott: Got you.
[00:45:08] Jeff: So I might use the word, plastic or something like that. But what but what I don't want is, I don't want to try to guess every term that a user is going to use… So when I create my listing, I want to think of every term that a user is going to use to find my listing. Food grade stainless steel garlic press because now I want to write into my product description to use those terms. In sponsored ads I don't want to do that, I want to let Amazon and their amazing algorithm determine what key… Because I don't know what people are searching for. So the more broad that I am, the more data that I get. In an ideal world when I log into and look at my sponsor product data, I want to see a keyword and then next to the keyword is a number, and that number is the number of search terms. I want to see that number be as big as possible.
[00:46:06] Scott: Absolutely.
[00:46:07] Jeff: That means that I'm giving Amazon a broad term that describes my product enough and I'm getting all of the users actual search terms. Now, when you look at a search term report you're typically going to find that there's probably like five or six of those that actually have any real volume. And then those are the ones that you want to start focusing in on as you go to phrase and exact. Now, if you set it up that way, remember that you want to make sure that your bids are slightly different so that Amazon knows which ad to serve.
Because if they're in the same campaign and doing broad phrase and exact from an ad group perspective, and they all have the same bid, then Amazon's going to kind of pick which one it wants to serve. So you want to have your exact phrase, have a little bit of a higher bid, then your exact have a higher bid than your phrase, and the phrase have a higher bid than broad, and then broad have a higher bid than auto target.
And then Amazon's going to know, “Okay, if they look for a stainless steel food grade garlic press…” And I happen to have that in my exact, it's going to serve that ad because that's the one that they're going to make the most money on and that's the one I'm willing to pay the most on because that's the term that's done the best for me. But I want to get myself to that, I don't want to guess as to what all of that is.
[00:47:40] Scott: Yeah, and I know we talked about this with Brandon, I know he has a little bit of a different take and so does Chris, and I know you probably do as well. It's like, and I know the big question people always want to know is like what is the number that I need to hit before I move that to phrase or an exact? I think honestly with from what you're saying like right here is if you know that garlic press mincer is going to be a phrase, you can put that almost in the phrase to begin with and not even worry about moving it because you know that that's already one of those top keywords or search terms, and then from there you're not repeating that in your broad. Does that make sense?
[00:48:30] Jeff: So I would still repeat it in my broad because…
[00:48:36] Scott: You would but you do it differently then.
[00:48:37] Jeff: Yeah. If it's not an overlapping term I would still, but if it's an overlapping term then no, I would not put it in my broad.
[00:48:43] Scott: Then I am saying that. It's an overlap. So again, we've got garlic press as the main.
[00:48:52] Jeff: You’re smart, like use your brain.
[00:48:54] Scott: Yeah, but I mean well… I'm even thinking of this. If I go to Amazon and I'm going to actually do or a now while we're here live and we're recording this, if I go there and I go to their search box, and I type in garlic, and then I put in press, I see garlic press stainless steel is the first suggestion it populates. The next one is Garlic Press Pampered Chef, garlic Press Alpha Grillers, Garlic Presser, and then Garlic Press OXO. So those are some brands. But the first one is garlic press stainless steel. So what you're saying is, I'm going to go put garlic press in as my broad, I'm not going to put in broad garlic press stainless steel, I'm going to put that to a phrase immediately. So I'm not overlapping.
[00:49:39] Jeff: Correct.
[00:49:40] Scott: Okay. Good. I just want to be clear now, and just to kind of break it down for people. Okay, so if you did that, if we did overlap, kind of repeat why you think that that's a bad thing.
[00:49:51] Jeff: Yes. So let's just use garlic press and garlic presser.
[00:49:55] Scott: Yeah, that’s a good one.
[00:49:57] Jeff: Because garlic press and garlic presser would even be an overlap in the phrase match and even possibly in the exact match because it's just a slight variation of the main term. And so when Amazon sees, in the broad match, when Amazon sees you looking for the term garlic press, and the user types in garlic press stainless steel, they're going to associate that to the campaign that you created because, broad, is going to put keywords in the front, in the middle, and at the end of the search term of the keyword that you've provided. And so you want to give Amazon the most broad term possible and if I had the word, garlic press and garlic press stainless steel, Amazon isn't necessarily going to determine which one is better. So let's say there's 1,000 searches a day for stainless steel garlic press, Amazon, in my broad campaign, might give 500 to garlic press and 500 to stainless steel garlic press. And the whole thing with Amazon sponsored ads is that you want this data.
Chris and Brandon will both ultimately agree that the data won't lie if you can get enough data. And so you want to set your campaign up in a way to where you can get enough data. You don't want to do things to kind of hamper your ability to get enough data and this is one of the things you would do that would hamper your data. So if you open up your campaign and you look in your keywords under broad, and you see garlic press, stainless steel garlic press, garlic presser, Pampered Chef garlic press, personally I would go through and I would pause everything but the word garlic press. Because you'll start to see all of the data that you have in all of those sub keywords and you want to push all of that into garlic press, and have all data in one place to make a better decision.
[00:52:05] Scott: That makes total sense because you're kind of dividing up the traffic, in a sense, with the impressions because you're trying to figure out all those different ones in that one campaign. But what you're saying is, you only have one seed keyword, in a sense, in there. All the budget is going to be focused more there and then from there you're going to be able to see all the data coming from that.
[00:52:29] Jeff: Right. And remember Amazon sponsored ads is a very complicated algorithm and their goal is to serve an ad that generates a sale. And so if you start creating keywords because you think, “Okay, I'm going to get somebody that wants a plastic garlic press to buy a stainless steel garlic press,” and you start driving a whole bunch of impressions that don't drive sales, then ultimately, what's going to happen is that Amazon just looks at the overall account performance. And it starts to take that into effect and it makes it harder for you to rank for your other terms. Because you'll notice whatever you do sponsored ads that as you make adjustments in your campaign you get little blips and then they kind of slow themselves down over time because Amazon is kind of it's saying, “Okay, there's something new I need to go look at.” Now I need to see if they're relevant for this and once it gets that relevance data it makes its determination.
So, if you have a campaign where you have bad keywords, you probably got a lot of impressions over a short period of time and then you've seen nothing. And that's an indication that you need to go in and you need to basically relook at your main keywords. And that's another area where people kind of make mistakes especially when they start Ignite, is they come in and they're kind of expecting Ignite to fix all of their problems. And that’s just not a problem Ignite can fix because Ignite is going to look at your data and then it's going to make suggestions based off of the data that you have.
But, for lack of a better term, garbage in is garbage out and so if you're not seeing the results that you want and if you are using a tool like Ignite and you're not seeing the results that you want, you might need to go back to campaign structure or your seed keywords and, for lack of a better term, kind of start over. And we find with a lot of people that they want to adjust their accounts to try to make their accounts work. But if your account is so junked up, for lack of a better term, you might be better off just kind of pausing that account and starting something totally new. So that you can actually set this up correctly and have it watch.
Now, let me give a warning here because we had a customer actually, I met him at Seller Summit, who came up to me, had this exact same problem and he said, “Well, Ignite isn't working.” And I went into his campaign and what he had done was he had an existing campaign and he wanted to kind of see how ignite would work so he created a new campaign, and he was trying to have the ignite campaign versus his old campaign. Well, that doesn't work because you're actually running two campaigns that are now competing against one another.
[00:55:35] Scott: Oh, so he didn’t turn the other one off?
[00:55:37] Jeff: He didn't turn the other one off. So I said, “I have a really simple suggestion for you. You need to turn the other one off.” And then like three days later he called back and he was like, “Oh, wow. Now everything is working.” And so if you're going to go through this process, whether you use Ignite or not it doesn't matter. If you're going to go through this process and you're going to reorganize your campaign, you have to turn your old campaign off otherwise you're not going to see a true result of what you need.
And some people get so hung up on, “I need to keep my data. I need to keep my data.” Get it right and then start moving forward as opposed to trying to manipulate… The old data becomes worthless once you start changing all this stuff anyway. So that's something really important for people to understand. It’s just not something we can fix. You've got to have keywords that actually describe your product and are driving the search terms that you need.
[00:56:35] Scott: Yeah, I know. And I agree 100%. And I think that a lot of times people are like, “Well, I had this thing running for six months. I've got a ton of data in there.” But kind of like the old way again, going back to the old way, always kind of like scrape a competitor's listing and then take those keywords and drop them in and it could be up to a thousand keywords and just do that and then see what happens. Kind of you are throwing mud against the wall and that's kind of change. Like we don't want to do that anymore.
We want to be more relevant and that's why, if you do have some of the older accounts, you might want to just like you said, pause them, you don’t get rid of them, you just pause them and then start another one. And then that way there everything is kind of separated and then he kind of see with using the new strategy, the new plan moving forward, it’s going take some time though. That’s the other thing. That’s another big one that you guys get asked all the time like, “Man, it’s just taking too long, I want the data.” And it's like, “You have to be patient.” Like that's a big thing for pay-per-click is, in any pay-per-click platform, is patience.
You have to have patience especially in Amazon because some of their results are delayed, their sales reporting is delayed, you got to wait a little bit. Patience, I think, is something that a lot of people aren't willing to do and I think that you have to. I think the other thing is if you want to get data quicker, you got to bid more. You got a bit more you got to increase your budget. If you're going to increase your budget, increase your bid, you're going to get results quicker as the data goes.
[00:57:55] Jeff: Yeah. And that's exactly right and it's something that we hear a lot of people that they want immediate results from sponsored ads. Listen, you can get some immediate results from sponsored ads. I'm not saying you can't, it just takes a little while to actually realize those results have occurred because Amazon is delayed in the data that they're providing back to you from a sales perspective, and you have to… What I do when I start a new account, what I do is we spend the first couple of days organizing the campaign. We organize it all on paper before we even do anything on the internet. We organize the campaign structure, the main keywords. We then create the campaign, we let that run for three to five days, just like we suggest to everybody else.
We then go in and we make tweaks. Now, sometimes our tweaks are, “Okay, we didn't set up the campaign organization correctly but as the data is now coming through, we need to change keywords we need to pull something off into a new campaign.” Or something like that. And so we spend the first two to three weeks of launching a new sponsored ad campaign really trying to kind of start, stop, reevaluate, start again, and get data so that we can really be, after the first two to three weeks, be ready to kind of set it on autopilot. And so you can get sponsored ads to kind of work on autopilot but you gotta get this organization set up. And so if you sign up for a tool, whether it's ours or anybody else's, you can't just expect their tool to fix all of your old mistakes. That would be a really awesome tool if we could make it.
[00:59:51] Scott: Not possible though.
[00:59:53] Jeff: It's not. So you have to kind of evaluate and determine like, “Is the problem right now that I need recommendations and suggestions or is it that I just never set this thing up properly for it to be moving forward?” And so that kind of leads to the second part which is the recommendations but I want to make sure that everyone's kind of clear on… We spend a lot of time, and people should realize that why it's so important. We spent a lot time on this talk talking about campaign organization and getting your right keywords. If you have those two things set correctly, that's your big takeaway. If those two things are set correctly, your ability to move forward with everything else becomes infinitely easier.
[01:00:40] Scott: Yeah, those are two easy things to do up front that can then help you moving forward in being able to look at the data and being able to make the right decisions, or even having your tool make the right suggestion. But you've got to have an organization in place. And again, we talked a lot on keywords and ranking and all of that stuff, and we talked, you know something we're hearing about Ignite are like, “Wanting to know what that is.” Why don’t we spend a couple of minutes just talking about Ignite, and again, if anyone wants to check out Ignite, you can go over to my affiliate link theamazingseller.com/ignite and you can sign up for a 30-day free trial, get your data in there, you can start working on your campaigns if you want to see what it does. But, why don't you just talk a little bit about Jeff, about like what the plan was for Ignite when it was created and then what you're looking for moving forward with Ignite.
[01:01:35] Jeff: Yeah, so the whole purpose of the building of Ignite was to provide sellers with the ability to manage sponsored ads and most sellers were using Excel spreadsheets to do this and you needed kind of an Excel master class to be good at sponsored ads. We wanted to kind of make it for either the seller to be able to do or for them to be able to put the system in place for either an employee or a VA to do. And so Ignite is giving you all of the data that comes from sponsored ads but given you the ability to one, get recommendations from that data, and I'll tell you about this update here at the end of this, and two, the ability to make changes within our application and push the stuff directly to the Amazon sponsored platform.
And then three, one of the things that Amazon doesn't let you do within their own platform for sponsored ads, is they don't actually show you profitability at a product level. And so we actually aggregate all of that different data and we bring that data together, so that you can look at it and you can look at an auto campaign and multiple manual campaigns, to then look at the profitability.
So I have a client right now that I have been working with. They are a national brand, so they're a little bit more recognized. So they actually have a campaign for their brand name, they have a campaign for their competitors brand name, they have a campaign for their broad phrase and their exact, and then they have an auto campaign. So they have four different campaigns and in Amazon they would see those all as four different campaigns but in Ignite, they can actually look at those all collective around the products to determine whether the profitability is there collectively.
[01:03:34] Jeff: So it's kind of an extra layer of analytics that you're not able to get through the other platform. But the one thing that we kind of offer that is really kind of exciting and sellers seem to really enjoy is what we call, our suggestions, and our suggestions are really based off of a few different categories, if you will, or a suggestion types. So, negative keywords. So finding keywords that are not performing keywords.
So looking at keywords that are performing in need to move from broad to phrase, to exact, or bid changes. So keywords that are or are not performing to your ACOS and need their bid changes made. And our infrastructure for the suggestions was, I'll just say it, it wasn't that great. But if you look in your account now, you'll actually see at the campaign level it'll say, “View all suggestions.” And you can actually go into the Ignite suggestions and you can see all of your current suggestions, and you can filter them buy these different suggestion types, and then you can actually do bulk approvals.
So the bulk approvals don't work for every suggestion type because there's some extra data that's needed for some of the other ones. But you can actually, if you've got 25 recommendations, you can actually approve all of those recommendations in one click versus what you had to do before which was go through all 25 of those. And then we use, just so everybody knows, we use this concept of confidence and importance. And so confidence is really easy to describe, confidence is basically statistical accuracy. And this is… We went really into this in the first podcast that we did on this.
[01:05:37] Jeff: So this is kind of going back to the art and science to be statistically accurate you need a lot of data. And so as you get more and more data, we get more confident in the decisions that we're recommending to you. But some sellers like to make decisions with less data and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's just a decision you have to make. The second part of it is importance and that is like how important is this change over another change that you could be making? And so you can kind of use these, there are little sliders on our system that allow you to kind of pick and choose, and so if you're working with like a VA you might say, “Okay, look here in Ignite, find anything with confidence of 60% or higher and auto approve those for me. But anything that's less than 60%, I want to look at those myself.” And so you could have somebody who's coming in to Ignite once, twice a week and is kind of making those suggestions and approving them for you. And so is a much better interface now for you to see all the recommendations that we're making.
[01:06:50] Scott: Yeah. And that's actually a really cool update. And I wasn’t even 100% aware of that until I talked to you. I'm in my account right now, in one of them. And I love that I mean, now I can bulk approve which I think that was a great feature update because before you had to select them all one by one or you know one at a time as you're going down the page. That's a great update and again, it's something you guys are listening to… You hear what people are requesting what they're wanting as you're kind of building this whole which is, you know, to me is it's a phenomenal tool but now to be able to actually do the bulk approve makes it even faster to make these adjustments. And once you get a lot of data, like I'm looking at mine, I got like, I guess there's probably at least 25 or 30 suggestions here.
And so, after I get off here, I'm going to have to go through and see what I want to improve what I don't want to approve. So I got some work to do. That's just on one campaign. But yeah, now that's awesome. So, let's wrap this up. Is there any other thing that you wanted to add? Whether it's about Ignite or whether it's about pay-per-click, anything else before we wrap up? I know we went on a little bit longer than we wanted to and I’d like to keep this tight. But is there anything else you want to add, Jeff?
[01:08:00] Jeff: Yeah, I just want to add, very similar to what you just said, contact us preferably through the website. It's kind of hard to have full conversations on Facebook about your campaign. Through our website sellerlabs.com/contact or just the sellerads.com and click the contact button. We love to hear from you. As Chris and Scott both know, we drive most all of our innovation through customer suggestions. So the more that we're hearing from you the more we're going to be driving those changes. And so as we hear kind of what your challenges are, what you like, what you don't like, that's going to drive what is added to the platform. And I can tell you that there's more coming. I don't want to make promises that…
There's a lot more coming and, you know, this product is still at its infancy and so there's still a lot of opportunities for us to add a lot of improvement to you and your campaigns. If you used Ignite in the past and you didn't find a lot of value from it, and you want to reuse it again, reach out to us and let us know because you might say like, “Okay, well, I didn't see how suggestions worked but now I want to give it a try again.” Reach out to us and let us know. Because we understand that this product is new, it's evolving, it's changing fast and we want to give you opportunities to use it as well as keep making improvements to what the customers are looking for.
[01:09:41] Scott: Yeah. Now, that's awesome and I appreciate that. You guys have been really good and I mean customer service has been always on point, and whether you use it or not, I wanted to have you back on today to really go through some of these things that you were struggling with, and also just kind of recap some of those issues that we think that people get hung up on because it can be confusing. And we did talk a little bit deeper in some of these topics but I think it's, you know, it has to be addressed and there's some people that need that and there's some people that aren't there yet. But, just to understand, start small stay organized, and then just build from the data. I think that's the big, big takeaways here. And you’re probably want to go back and listen to this again. You’re probably going to want to download the shows notes, the transcripts and all that stuff, because this stuff is always a topic that people want to go back and reference to.
So Jeff, I want to thank you again brother. I know we went on a little bit longer than we had planned but that's how we roll, that's what we do when we start talking about this type of stuff. But it could ask you more questions on other topics which we’ll probably have to have you back on again and we’ll probably have to dig into those because it's always fun riffing back and forth with you. So I want to thank you again Jeff for taking time out of your day, and I'm sure we'll be in touch brother.
[01:10:49] Jeff: Thanks for having me.
[01:10:51] Scott: All right. So, there you have it. Another deep dive into the popular topic, sponsored product ads, keyword ranking and all of that stuff in between. Again, I want to apologize for my audio. Hopefully, it was good enough for you guys to sit through and again, I think it was a great, great conversation with great content that's why I didn't want to scrap it and have to do it again. So, hopefully, it was cool with you guys.
The resources again, the show notes, the transcripts they can be found at theamazingseller.com/387, and then the resource for the pay-per-click as far as training, free training that is, we did a whole week's worth. That can be found at theamazingseller.com/ppc. And then the last thing I'll remind you is the tool, Ignite. If you want to try that out for 30 days, head over to theamazingseller.com/ignite. And you can go ahead and give it a free test drive. Thirty days should give you plenty of time to get stuff rolling.
So guys that is going to officially wrap up this episode. I want to remind you once again, I'm here for you, I believe in you, and I am rooting for you but you have to, you have to… Come on say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, say it with conviction today, “Take action.” Have an awesome amazing day, and I'll see you back here on the next episode.
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