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…we are going to be doing another hot seat. We’re going to be talking about no organic sales after a launch and the question was what am I doing wrong? Well, Chris and I are going to dive into this hot seat today. We’re going to go through all the details from one of our listeners, one of you guys out there that submitted this and we’re just going to deep dive into it. We’ve already done a little bit of research around the product and the market because, well, he went ahead and sent everything in for us but that’s what we’re going to be doing here on today’s episode and I’m really excited to dive into this, Chris, because I think there’s a lot of different things that we can talk about and then we can maybe stir them in the right direction or at least get them on the right track. So, I guess I should probably welcome you. What’s up, man? How you doing?
[00:01:01] Chris: Doing great, man. The sun is shining. It's officially springtime here in Texas.
[00:01:05] Scott: Oh wow.
[00:01:06] Chris: And it was like 80 yesterday. It was absolutely glorious. So, we’re out of that winter muck and into the springtime gorgeousness that happens down here in Texas.
[00:01:14] Scott: Wow. Listen to those words that are describing your life right now or your weather.
[00:01:23] Chris: I have a little bit of poetic love relationship with weather apparently.
[00:01:26] Scott: I guess so.
[00:01:27] Chris: But, you know, it’s one of those…
[00:01:28] Scott: Glorious.
[00:01:29] Chris: I don’t realize how much I miss like taking a walk with even just the dog in the sunshine until it comes back. Like over the winter I still walk the dog. You’re outside, whatever, but I just come back into my house and so much of a better mood when it’s nice and sunny out.
[00:01:44] Scott: Yes. Sun does make you in a better mood. I will agree with that.
[00:01:46] Chris: I realized that last week and it was funny because our friends Joel and Angel were making fun of me because they’re like, “Why are you in such a good mood?” and I was like, “I don’t know like nothing has changed except for the fact that I went for a walk in the sunshine today.” So, they were just laughing at me because it sounds ridiculous but if you guys have the chance today, make sure you do that because it’s sunny. If not, do it the next time and see if it makes a difference for you. A little bit of vitamin D gets me fired up. All right. So, we’re going to try to keep this to half an hour, so I don’t want to chat too much about the weather. But I’m fired up and ready to go, Scott, if you are.
[00:02:17] Scott: Yeah. I’m ready and, again, what I want to do here is just let people know that what we’re doing is really breaking down a situation or a problem that someone is having right now currently after launching and they’re a little frustrated, kind of pulling my hair out a little bit saying like, “What am I doing wrong?” And I love doing this, Chris, because it gives us a chance to dig in and see if there are things that can be improved because, again, we said this time and time again. If you are not putting something in motion, if you’re not doing something, you can’t make adjustments. So, number one, I want to tip my hat here to Ben who submitted this question or these questions and allowing us to deep dive because you have done something which is great because now we can actually ask ourselves questions through this process and that’s what we’re going to be doing. So, Chris, you want to kick it off? What are we going to be really diving into? What are some of the things that we want to start with here?
[00:03:17] Chris: So, we got an email from Ben, our French-Canadian friend, and I have a feeling we’re going to make some Canadian jokes as we work our way through this and he said, basically, Scott, he has a problem. He launched his listing about a month ago as of the time of this recording and his problem is he’s got no sales like no beeping sales. Zero…
[00:03:34] Scott: That’s basically what it said.
[00:03:35] Chris: Zero *beep* sales, right? And he wants to know, “Am I being impatient or do you think I did something wrong? I can keep giving away my products and getting reviews and sales velocity, but I don’t want to keep hitting my head against the wall for nothing either.” He also wanted us to know that he’s been listening to us since day one while he was in college and each time that he hears you say take action he felt bad for not taking any and you should too if you’re listening and you’re not taking action. He said, “I’m slow but methodic and resolute to make this work.” He also filled us in on some details. He did some, Scott, stuff during the launch that he said is probably kind of gray hat I would say. It’s straight up black hat and we’ll kind of dive into this a little bit but essentially what’s happening is he’s getting around 15 sessions a day with a 21% conversion rate but that doesn’t really mean anything because he said 90% of his sales are still giveaways. So, he wants us to dive in and take a look at the listing.
[00:04:33] Scott: Yeah. Well, and let me just clarify that part of it like even he said like maybe in the past doing these sorts of things to get reviews to get sales weren’t gray hat, they weren’t black hat. They were just everyone was doing it. So, was it really still okay by Amazon? Probably not. If you ran that by their team, they’re probably going to say, “No, we don’t want you doing that,” just like Google like they weren’t ever okay with you taking back links and creating these networks of your own sites to point links to your stuff, so you can rank and all of that stuff. It’s never been okay. It’s just they’re enforcing the rules now.
The one thing I want to say is whenever you’re going into a market and you’re looking at the sales that you will need to generate in order to rank, if you’re thinking to yourself, “I don’t know if I will be able to get sales and get ranking by having to, number one, resort to these types of tactics,” and the tactics we’re talking about are things like maybe review groups that are there to allow you to go in there and say, “Hey, give me a review and I’ll pay you like I’ll send you some PayPal money so this way here you can give me the review and it will look like you paid full price,” because now that’s a big thing.
We just did a whole podcast on that, Chris, or even a YouTube where now the new way to get around that is we’re going to give rebates. You buy it and we’ll give you a rebate. It’s the same darn thing. So, we don’t want to do that stuff. Now, I’m not picking on Ben. I’m not picking on anyone that’s maybe doing this or maybe you’ve just been misled. If you’ve been listening to the podcast for the last even 12 months, there’s nothing in there that would have been playing around with any type of gray hat. It’s pretty straightforward. But there are some things that I think we need to address here, Chris, because I think he might be focusing on the wrong things. That’s what I personally think.
[00:06:34] Scott: So, let’s start with like, okay, right now he’s not getting many sales but he’s doing giveaways in various ways and he’s getting about five sales a day, not organic but five sales a day. Okay. So, where do you want to start with that? Like where should we, I guess, start?
[00:06:53] Chris: So, if he’s getting five sales a day, 89% of those are organic or are reviews driven sales by him. That means about one a day-ish is coming from Amazon and I know we talked about in a previous hot seat, Scott, and actually, somebody inside of Product Discovery Bootcamp was making fun of us this weekend. I don't know if you saw that because we were doing the entrepreneur math. How many sessions a day do we need to get? But that's always the first place that I like to start. When we're diagnosing one of these problems, we need to know if it's a traffic problem or a conversion problem and those are the two big kinds of categories that I would lump these in. I don't think there's a third one, but the traffic and the conversions would really be where we want to diagnose that.
And if we’re saying we’re converting at 21%, that’s pretty good but, again, a huge portion of that is coming from reviews so we can’t even really look at the conversion rate. But just looking at this, he says he's getting about 15 sessions a day. That's not enough. If we want to sell 10 units a day and we're converting at 10% which is what you and I have said in the past is like kind of what we shoot for as a ballpark average. Good – I’m doing air quotes, and no one can see them. Good conversion on Amazon. You can do much better than that but that's where I would start to say that you're converting well. You would need at least 100 sessions a day between PPC and organic. So, right off the bat, we know that there's a traffic issue.
[00:08:16] Scott: Okay. So, let me say something here though.
[00:08:19] Chris: Go for it.
[00:08:19] Scott: Looking at this market, now that we know the market, okay, we’re not going to reveal the market, but we know it and we know the product. By me looking at the garlic press version of this product, now this product you could niche down possibly into submarkets which again we talked a lot about inside of our new Product Discovery Bootcamp is like how to find the main market and then how to create those submarkets inside of that bigger market and I think you totally could probably do that or even just set up the product differently. So, my thing is this. When you were going into this market and you're looking at the sales demand, you got to know that five sales a day is not going to be enough. It just isn't going to be enough, not even close.
If I look at the generic garlic press version, I’m looking at a thousand plus sales per month for like four or five listings. That means that in order for you to even get on that first page, you need to sell that many per month or more. All right. Now, the next thing would be, “Well, okay, but wait a minute, Scott, there’s more than just four listings that show up on page 1. What if I get number six?” Well, that’s okay. But now we have to convert someone from scrolling and looking at the top five or four and clicking on yours. Well, the next thing that came to my attention was the images. The images did not do the product justice and I know he had said, “I think I did really good with my images.” I personally don’t and I’m sorry to be harsh, but the pictures do not support the market. So, if you’re thinking to yourself, “Well, wait a minute here. Don’t you just shoot the product?”
[00:10:15] Scott: Yes, kind of but if you have packaging that goes along with that product and that stuff it doesn’t mesh well with that product or maybe you’re selling something that is more of let’s say a sports and outdoorsy, you wouldn’t want a baby powder blue maybe because that’s not going to be hard and you’re going to be like you’re going out there aggressively. So, there’s different marketing that goes into just the branding of it. So, to me, that was like the first thing like I'm looking at it like thinking I'm scrolling through. I see the other ones. They look the part and then I see yours. I don’t care if you’re even position number three. I’m not probably clicking on it. I’m just not. So, Chris, what do you think about that?
[00:11:03] Chris: So, as you were talking there, Scott, I’m pulling it up on my phone because I’m curious if it’s just the resolution of my monitor or if it’s – no. I can see it a little bit better on my phone but on desktop at least for me, the images are super blown out. The contrast ratio on my phone is a little bit better than it is on my monitor. I have an old monitor and I don’t know if you’re seeing kind of that same thing, but I can’t even tell…
[00:11:28] Scott: Yeah. It’s washed out for sure.
[00:11:29] Chris: Yeah. On my phone it’s great but and that’s fine. That’s okay. The images look I would say probably a hundred times better on my phone, but I still can’t tell what it is. And so, that to me is a big deal. The photos here, just getting “professional photos” is not necessarily enough. We need to look at the competitors and see what the top sellers are doing and model that. Don’t copy that. Model that. And if we look at the top sellers, they’re doing this very differently in terms of what they’re showcasing in that primary listing photo. So, that’s going to help us, Scott, and I think something that’s important here is if we don’t have organic traffic and we need to get to 100 sessions, the only real way to do that is to offset that with paid traffic up front. And if we're not doing something that's going to let people know what the product is in our image then they're not going to click through. So, we're going to show it to a lot of people but we're still not going to get those sessions. And then once they get there, if they're confused as to what it is, they’re still not going to buy it. So, then we’re just kind of paying for traffic to not convert.
So, the very first job that we have is to make our listing as clickable as possible. We need to write a correct title and we need to have eye-catching images. Chances are the people that are advertising if they're selling very well kind of know what they're doing. We can always test against this later but upfront for me what I would like to see everyone do and I think you agree with me on this, and if not, feel free to yell at me, is model what’s working and then test against it. If we look at what Ben has done here, he has something that potentially could work very well in a different market, but I don’t see any of the other top sellers doing what he did in terms of that primary photo. They’re really showcasing the product and letting people see what the product is. And in that main photo, I can’t tell what the product is.
[00:13:30] Scott: No. My other thing is this and this is a great tip for anyone. If you’re going into a market that you are not familiar with, you can’t fake it. You can’t. And this is a perfect example of this. It’s like if I don’t know about a certain market or if it’s gender specific, I’m not a woman so maybe I can’t relate to a woman as far as like what I would think of when I would see this thing or same thing. If I am a – well, I am a man but if I’m not into a certain thing, there are certain looks or like if you’re into Harley Davidson and you’re a biker, well, there are certain looks that go well with that but maybe a woman that is not into motorcycles but is into, I don’t know, what would be something that would be like the total opposite? I don’t know, Chris. I’m thinking on the fly here.
[00:14:32] Chris: The opposite of what? Of a Harley person?
[00:14:34] Scott: Well, yeah, of like someone that's a biker. Because there are biker women and biker men but like the opposite.
[00:14:40] Chris: I would just go with something like nerd culture and not to call people. I mean I’m a giant nerd and everybody knows that about me.
[00:14:48] Scott: Okay. No, that makes sense, or I mean it could be someone like you said that is total opposite of that, well that person can’t really and shouldn’t be really trying to sell a product to that market unless they can get alongside someone that’s in that market. Again, we talked a lot about that in our Product Discovery Bootcamp because we want to align ourselves with people that can help us kind of like talk to that market in a way like we’re even talking to images here is talking to the market in a sense. It’s visual connection but, I mean, if I’m scrolling through right now, Chris, and I did. I did like one of the main keywords for this, it’s all a lot of them are exactly what I would think for this type of product and then I haven’t seen his yet. I’m still trying to look through the different rankings for these top keywords but even if I did, I wouldn’t click on that. I know my wife would and I could ask her and she would be like, “No, it doesn’t go along with that type of market.”
So, the other thing I wanted to address here, and I know we’re going a little bit off topic here a little bit but the other thing that I wanted to just kind of bring out here is it almost seems like and I’m glad that Ben actually went out there and did something. That’s a positive thing and I don’t think that this is like you can’t make this work. I think that you totally could but are you just trying to find a product or are you trying to create a brand because you did talk about, “I built a Facebook page, I built an email list, a pretty good size email list.” My question would be like why aren’t you using those things then? So, I guess, my first question to Ben or anyone in this satiation would be are you just trying to find a product or are you trying to find a product that will serve a market and then build a brand inside that market? That would be my questions to ask. Because it doesn’t look like that is the case here.
[00:16:46] Chris: Yeah. And I think that’s important, Scott. And the two things that we’re really noticing off the top here are things that is – so here’s a question. Is his product like his packaging, would you consider that to be good packaging in general outside of this? And for me, I think it’s cool packaging.
[00:17:06] Scott: But not for this market.
[00:17:07] Chris: But not for this market. Again, we need to model what’s working and then test other stuff. That’s the whole reason that we look at demand on Amazon, Scott. You and I have a thousand product ideas that we could throw up and see if they work but that’s not what we like to do because it involves a lot more time, a lot more money, and a heck of a lot more heartache. If we know that a product is going to sell us 10 units a day because we validated demand, then we’re going to do that but part of knowing that it’s going to do that is modeling what works and then trying to improve it. That’s one of the reasons we talk about going to the reviews and seeing what people are complaining about to improve that product. And in this case, it looks like we’re reinventing the wheel in terms of packaging at least compared to what’s already working in the market and that’s not generally what I would do upfront. If we want to test it at some point, and we want to add a variation that is a cheaper variation or just a different variation then I think that’s fine to see if it sells that way but upfront we need to model what’s working.
[00:18:19] Scott: So, right now my biggest thing here is that I would be suggesting is you would need to change that picture, number one. Before you dial a pay-per-click, before you run any Facebook ads to anything like do not do that until you fix that picture. Like I would say if you’re going to throw a pay-per-click like I think he even said he was throwing pay-per-click at it and I don’t know. Has he had any conversions with pay-per-click?
[00:18:51] Chris: Well, if he’s getting 15 sessions a day I doubt it.
[00:18:54] Scott: Okay.
[00:18:55] Chris: I’m looking through the emails right now. Let’s see.
[00:18:56] Scott: Yeah. And you’re not getting any organic sales and if you are running pay-per-click and you’re not, there’s a problem. You already have over 50 reviews so you know what, the reviews are not going to sell this product. You have plenty. You had plenty at 10 because I’ve seen a couple here that are selling 500 a month and they only have 20. So clearly, they can sell without having a lot of reviews. The very first thing is your main image. You got to remember people are shopping, they’re scrolling through. Chris, last night I’m going to throw this out here. I was going to share this, and I probably will. I’m going to share a little bit more in depth. You’re going to love this too because your girlfriend actually is kind of in this space in a sense. It’s a musical instrument and I was looking for a box drum and I’ve never played a box drum. I used to play drums in school and I used to play before I played guitar and all that stuff, and it was funny. I was talking to my daughter, my oldest daughter who’s married and her husband wanted to just again kind of play around with it. And I’m like, “You know what, I think I’m just going to buy one, just to have it and just to kind of fiddle around with. It’ll be kind of fun.”
[00:20:13] Chris: Oh, so cool.
[00:20:14] Scott: It’s cool. Right?
[00:20:15] Chris: And it’s an extra seat.
[00:20:16] Scott: And it's an extra seat, right, and it's a conversation piece. So, I’m like, “You know what, I’m going to do it.” So, last night literally, I’m sitting here and I’m scrolling through Amazon and, again, I’m saying, “This is on my touch list by the way,” so I started going through all this stuff. I was really shopping for two different things and I was going off of the image on every single one and what I was doing was I was saying like, “I like the finish of the wood. I want the wood to look a certain way. Yes, I want it to sound good, but I want the wood to look a certain way,” and I found like this blondish wood one that had like really good grain to it and stuff. Probably sounds the same as some of the other ones but that’s what I was going off of. The other thing I was going off of is can it be shipped by FBA or did I have to wait? That was the other one. So, I was going through looking at images.
I was scrolling through images. That’s all I was doing. The image that grabbed my attention, I clicked, and I went in then I don’t even think I looked at the review count on that much or at that point. All I was looking at then was size. I was looking at because I wanted one that was at least 18 inches tall. I wanted one that was at least 12 inches wide. There were some things that I was starting to learn. I had no idea about this market before like two days ago either by the way, Chris. So, I was looking at that stuff, but my point is this, I was shopping by images. That’s all I was shopping by at that point. Now, once I click in, I might start looking at reviews. Instead of three stars, yes, I’m going to be like, “Oh my gosh, why is this a three star?” But if it had four stars, four-and-a-half stars, I didn’t even look to be honest with you. I was just like, “Okay cool. Yeah.” So, I ended up buying them by the way. So, I bought one last night.
[00:21:53] Chris: Nice.
[00:21:54] Scott: Yeah. So, I’m going to be fiddling around with that so that’ll be fun but back on track here, images are important. They are so, so important. All right. Let’s move on. So, we clearly have kind of identified that the images need to be improved, number one. Number two, no matter if you get traffic or not, if you don’t fix that, it will be hard to judge because you won’t get the sessions inside of your listing to see actually what you could convert at. So, what would be the next thing? Let’s say that the image is fixed. You’ve got a couple of new versions of that picture. You’ve taken our advice. You’ve done that. What next, Chris?
[00:22:33] Chris: Well, first, we got to dial up PPC and I think in here he said he’s spending $5 a day, $10 a day or something. Let me see if I can find it here again really fast. But we need to dial that up and we need to see if that traffic goes up. The Amazon traffic is the first we need to scale then we can look at conversion rate then we can look at those other things. And then once we start getting sales on Amazon, we can start to keep track of that organic rank and we can evaluate, Scott, whether or not we’re getting sales organically or they’re all just coming through PPC but the very first button we need to push is that pay-per-click button. We need to dial that up absolutely for me without a doubt. Is that kind of the next step that you would take? Let’s say we squared away that image. There’s a couple of other things on the listing I would probably clean up but just in general, the very next thing I would do is turn on PPC.
Once we start to see that we’re actually getting traffic to that listing then we can take a look at the listing if we’re not converting. But I would fix that main image right off the bat. The other thing I might do on this listing, Scott, is playing with the title a little bit. Again, model what’s working. Don’t just do what you think is going to work. We have a lot of keywords in here that people aren’t using. The top sellers just aren’t using them and there’s potentially a reason for that and if we look at what then did in terms of his giveaways and where he has been positioning the product to even look at the title, the main keyword in the title is not where the majority of the sales are. It’s actually a different area of the market. So, we’re saying long handled garlic press stainless steel, well, it’s actually stainless-steel garlic press. No one cares necessarily about the long handle. They care about the fact that it’s stainless steel and when we look at this there is that.
[00:24:34] Chris: The other thing that we have in this title is a claim and if you look at the first two words of that title, Scott, we can see that there is a claim in that title. Amazon doesn’t want us to have anything in the title that is, “Number one best,” or anything like that is not supposed to be in a title. The other thing that really stuck out to me here, Scott, is the claim on the packaging that we can see and the claim in the title were two different things. That for me is potentially a conversion rate issue but that’s a completely other conversation. Anytime we have people coming to a page, we want the messaging to match throughout. And so, if we’re going to say something as, “The best garlic press,” we don't want that to be in the title which we can't have anyway but just in this example and then have the packaging say, “Best for pressing limits.” Those are two kinds of contradictory claims for people. They might both appeal to the market but when you see that kind of disconnect, the people are coming there for the garlic press are actually less likely to convert at that point.
[00:25:29] Scott: Yeah. I agree. So, I guess kind of to recap a little bit like image, number one. I’m even looking at the flash giveaway that he did which looks great. I mean, it looks good, but the image in it doesn’t really do it justice at all. It’s more focused on the package which to me needs to be fixed than it does the actual product. But the other thing is the way that the giveaway was being done. It wasn’t driven to collect emails. It was really created for a couple of different reasons. He was using ManyChat. Is it Many or Manny?
[00:26:15] Chris: Many as in more than a few.
[00:26:17] Scott: Right. Okay. Yes. So, he was using that which is basically a Facebook tool that you can use now for messaging and direct messaging, DMing and all that stuff. But he was using that for people that interacted with the ad which that’s pretty smart actually but I would’ve rather instead of saying like, “Tag a friend in the comments and win automatically,” like we don’t want to just give our product away without them actually giving us their email address or even for them to just interact with it like that doesn’t give us enough drive, I guess enough of an asset.
To me personally, I would rather have seen them do something a little bit bigger as far as maybe you include that product with something bigger and then get those same people to opt-in with an email address. You can also do a Facebook Pixel that we’ve talked about before and then you can follow up that way. You can still do ManyChat, you can still do that. You can still do all those things to remind them about the contest and stuff but this one right here, Chris, what do you feel about the contest, the way that it was arranged here to build up an audience in a sense that you could potentially launch this to?
[00:27:33] Chris: So, first, Ben, I love you, brother. I love that you’re taking action but, Scott, he loves to know that he developed a significant email list and Facebook following. It looks like he has 93 likes on that page right now. Just for reference, guys, 100 people is awesome. That to me would not be considered significant. Like, it’s a start and that’s fine so I’m curious how many emails he actually has as well but when we look at this, we are doing a flash giveaway of the product. This is not something I like doing via a Facebook ad. We started to test this and we actually, Scott, this last week, and we haven’t shared this, this last week I guess as of recording this we actually did a Facebook ad to a giveaway recently because Amazon rolled out a recent thing and I’m sure we’ll talk about that in the podcast at some point and we gave a 25% discount. We were paying about $2.50 an email address when everything is said and done which $2.50 per redemption.
Here we don’t really know what we’re paying because we don’t know what he did, but we do know I think he said he got 90 people to redeem this. Well, he had 328 people say that they were willing to get something for free and only 90 people redeemed it. So, I don’t know what the process is on the backend but if 320 people raise their hand and only 90 people redeemed it, we have a conversion rate issue there as well and there’s probably some hurdles to jump through to actually claim that but I’m not a huge fan of doing it this way. What I would rather see Ben and anybody else do is do a giveaway to build an email list. Give them the ultimate kitchen starter kit if you’re selling a garlic press. And what that does is that then allows you to actually talk to them and create value and what value allows you to do is ask for something in exchange. So, once we’ve created some value, once we’ve given them some tips and tricks on cooking, we can say, “Hey look, we’re launching the world’s best garlic press and you guys can go get it,” and then we don’t have to give it away. We can discount it slightly if we want to or we don’t even have to.
[00:29:32] Chris: We did our product launch recently where we didn’t give anything or we didn’t give any discount. We just mentioned it and we sold 20. And so, that happens all the time with our email list. Whenever we mention a product, we sell a handful here and there even if we don’t discount it even if it’s just in the PS or its mentioned in an article that we shared. We sell some because we’re driving traffic. We don’t need to discount it massively. And in this case, we’re giving it away and I have a feeling we’re giving it away specifically in exchange for a review which isn’t something that we want to do. Any time that we can make money back I would prefer to do that and that’s the reason that we give away something big to get those emails and also it tends to be more shareable if that makes sense because people actually care more about a $300 thing than they care about $20 thing. I know it sounds weird to put it that simply but it’s true. They care much more about winning the $300 ultimate cooking kit than they do about getting a free garlic press especially if they have to jump through hurdles to get the free garlic press.
[00:30:36] Scott: Yeah. I mean, again, we’re kind of critiquing Ben here but anyone for that matter but…
[00:30:44] Chris: He’s definitely not alone and that’s the reason that I think it’s important to talk about this.
[00:30:47] Scott: Definitely not alone and I also wanted to just say like my hats off to you for taking action and actually doing this stuff because it’s a way for us now to say, “Wait a minute here. Whoa. Back up.” Let’s just do things a little bit differently. First, let’s start with a better image. Again, I’m looking right at the giveaway that was posted on Facebook and that right there that needs to be improved because I think your reach was pretty decent, over 15,000 reached and over 370 comments and like almost 30 shares, a bunch of likes. So, even with not being the best image, it did okay. I believe you could do even better if you really gave a better image to that market. I think they would really resonate with it more and also want to basically go in and sign up for whatever.
But again, like Chris said, I would do it differently. I would run it or something that’s worth $200 or $150 in that market, maybe include one of your products alongside of it that makes sense with it and then just collect email addresses, also set up your Facebook Pixel so this way here you’re building a custom audience inside of Facebook while you’re doing this whether they opt in or not and then that way there you’re able to build this email list and then start sending out content. This is a great market to send content to so you’re going to be okay there. You also might want to reach out to influencers in YouTube. Maybe a blogger that talks about this, maybe an Instagram page. There’s a lot of different places you could just tap into someone else’s audience, but you got to fix that image first and you got to also maybe the messaging a little bit there as well because again, this isn’t necessarily you that’s in the market. You’re trying to be that person but it’s not necessarily you, so you got to find someone or you have to just look at other people that are doing okay and model what they’re doing because obviously what they’re doing is working.
[00:32:47] Scott: And like I said, the person that’s selling 500 per month and they only have 20 reviews, they have better images and they have a better listing. And so, it shows you that they are going to be or your customer or your potential customer is going to be reacting more to an image that resonates with them or kind of gives them the right image.
[00:33:08] Chris: So, one other thing that really popped out here to me, Scott, first I think the influencers in this space would love this product if it was presented to them correctly. I took a look at Ben’s website here and in the example of the garlic press, we’re looking at a stainless-steel garlic press. One of the things that people hate in like cooking products now is BPA, right? So, our stainless-steel product doesn’t contain any plastic parts. It’s 100% stainless steel which means it’s BPA free. That’s a huge selling point for people. We’re not mentioning that anywhere. Amazon is not necessarily the place to talk about that but it’s still nice to call out. But we’re not going to have a whole marketing message around that. Influencers can really do that, and they would love to do that in this particular market. And so, to say, “We have the world’s best garlic press. It contains no BPA or whatever other chemicals. It’s made from stainless steel so that you don’t get the flavors from other foods,” and have the influencers explain why that’s important to their market. The market would eat this up.
This product is a good product. We just have a couple of small issues that we need to fix. And that’s kind of a thing. It’s one of the reasons I love watching like The Profit and Shark Tank because you get to see all these entrepreneurs who are taking action and they’re doing everything that they think they need to do and then you can just come in and you can look at it and you can say, “Well, okay, here’s where we went wrong. Here’s where we went wrong on this.” And we have the ability to do that because we’re not in the business in this particular one.
I can tell you right now that if somebody took a look at some of our listings they would probably have the same critiques. But we’re constantly in there testing all of this different stuff and that’s what we need to be doing here. We need to be making these small changes and that’s really what’s going to make or break for this product. I think the demand is there, just to kind of sum everything up, I think the demand is there. What we need to do is we need to focus on getting eyes on the page. So, we need to tweak that listing, clean up that title, make sure our keywords are right there for where the demand is in the market.
[00:35:10] Chris: The second thing we need to do, fix those images so that we can actually draw people into the listing and then turn up PPC. If we want to also ramp up some external traffic now that Amazon has rolled out some cool new features there, we want to work with some influencers and we really want to launch this. And this is the other thing, Scott, that we didn’t talk about. If we’re only selling a handful of these a day, we’re not going to rank on page 1 for that main keyword. We need to really ramp up those sales and just what I’m looking at here, we need to triple those.
[00:35:39] Scott: Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:35:40] Chris: We might come in towards the very bottom of page 1 if we’re selling five or six a day but we really need to be selling 10 or more in this market to do that. And so, turn up PPC by all means but reach out to some of those influencers or tweak your Facebook ad and do the giveaways, send an email to that list so that you can actually start to drive some of that traffic. And if we can drive that traffic for even just three or four or five days then we can get some conversions, we can get to that 10 or 15 sales a day mark, that’s when the organic sales in this market I think will really start to take over. But PPC I think is a critical portion of that upfront for this market.
[00:36:13] Scott: Yeah. I think it is and I think a great validation piece for Ben or anyone in this situation is fix the image, fix your listing, turn up pay-per-click. If you start to see some sales, you know you’re on the right track. Because all we’re doing then is we’re getting eyeballs. If we get the eyeballs for the people that are searching for this particular product then we know we’re on the right track. Once that’s kind of dialed in, then your external stuff would be even more dialed in because now we’ve kind of tested it with real eyeballs. We’ve done it quickly and then we can go ahead and see what that has done. If it hasn’t or maybe it’s bumped in a little bit and not as much as you thought, maybe you tweak it again. Maybe you add a different image. You never know what image will be the one that might be the one that will make it right but for me, it's definitely looking at the image. That's like the number one thing that I've seen that I was like, “No, not in this market.” It’s very easy to model the other ones there and kind of how they’re doing it, so I would definitely look at that.
The other thing is the last thing that I would say too is some of the competitors are offering not just I don’t want to say like variations but they’re adding on a different twist to it. It could be quantity. It could be length. It could be how many come in a pack. It could be any of that stuff that will, again, make them stand out that you might not be doing. So, you have to again when someone’s shopping, they’re going to be comparing those. In my case, when I was looking for a box drum the other night, I was looking for the size and I was looking for a tone of the wood. So, again, that comes into if you have something that is pattern-driven or like in my case it kind of was. I wanted a wood grain look. I didn’t want it to be a solid black or a solid mahogany. I wanted it to be a wood grain so then I’m not even looking at the other ones now. I’m just looking at that stuff.
[00:38:09] Scott: So again, look at what the top sellers are doing, try to model a little bit of what they’re doing so this way here when someone is shopping or comparing apples-to-apples so that’s what I would say. So, I know, Chris, we just went on a little bit of a long wrap-up rant there, but I would say just go back even listen to this again if you have to, make notes but I would start there. And then from there the last question that I would ask myself is, is this a brand that you are building or is it a one-off product? And if that’s the case, it’s fine for right now but I would say start to look at a market that you can build a brand in and at least roll out three to five products and again, that’s something we talk a lot about in our new Product Discovery Bootcamp.
If you guys have not heard about that, well, it’s because it’s brand-new and we’re just wrapping up our first class right now and depending on when you listen to this, it probably will be available to the public so you can always go check out ProductDiscoveryBootcamp.com for more details and that is where we really dive into market research, finding your niche and finding submarkets and low competition products. And to me, if you can do that, it’s going to be a lot easier. In this case, I think you can do that because you found a really great market. You got to find a way to get yourself a little bit niche down further and also find three to five products that could support that market. So, that’s what I got. Anything else left, Chris, before we wrap this up?
[00:39:36] Chris: I think the biggest thing that I just want to recap here, Scott, is let’s try not to reinvent the wheel. We do want a better mousetrap, but we don’t want to not market it as a mousetrap. Like we want everybody to know that it’s a mousetrap, just that it’s a better mousetrap. And any time that we can take a look at what is working and model it, not steal it, not rip it off directly, but model it, that would be where I would start. Scott, you and I have talked in the past about let’s start these listings with our best guess in terms of photos, in terms of copy, in terms of the title, in terms of keywords and then let the data tell us if we’re wrong. The way we make that best guess is by modeling what’s working.
If you look at successful people, most successful people model what works and then put their own spin on it. That’s what we want to do here. We don’t want to necessarily reinvent the wheel, A, in terms of product. We like to find products that are excelling but, B, in terms of the listing and what the market has shown to support. If we look at the top sellers and they’re shooting their photos a certain way, that’s how I would start. If they’re writing their title a certain way, that’s how I would start because even though it may not be perfect, it’s the best guess that we can make upfront. Does that make sense?
[00:40:49] Scott: It does. It makes total sense and again, don’t overcomplicate things. Break it down. Especially when you’re now up and running, you can do this stuff and that’s what I love about Ben sharing this is he’s actually done something. So, now it’s really easy to go back and kind of start picking things apart in a sense and asking questions why isn’t this happening, why am I only getting 15 sessions? Well, let’s talk about it. I’m ranking but I’m not getting anybody to my listing. Why? Well, let’s look at the image so we can reverse engineer kind of what’s happening and what’s going wrong, but we can do that because we have something that’s up and live so really important that you guys understand that.
And also, just to note that as you’re going through this process, you’re learning. You’re learning through this process and when you decide to maybe pivot and go to another market, you’ll have all of this to really work with and that’s what I love about this. So, there’s no failure here and whether you run with this product and you make it a success or you make it a brand, that’s great but just understand that while you’re going through this process, you’re learning, you’re building up your education, your skillset, and you’ll be a lot better in the future. All right. So, Chris, are we ready to wrap this up?
[00:41:58] Chris: I think we are.
[00:41:59] Scott: Let's remind people about the show notes. If you guys want to download the show notes, the transcripts to this episode which is a good one, by the way, head over to TheAmazingSeller.com/488 and you can get all the transcripts, the links, the notes, all of that stuff will be there for you and, yeah, just again just remember don’t overcomplicate this stuff but you have to get started in order to even have a result at all so just get out there and do something. All right. And then I’ll remind you guys one more time, our ProductDiscoveryBootcamp.com should be live really soon if it isn’t already. Head over to ProductDiscoveryBootcamp.com and check that out, get all the details there. We’d love to have you inside where we really dive really deep into this entire process. All right. So, that’s going to wrap it up, guys. I want to remind you one last time and I’m going to do this with Chris. Chris, are you going to be ready for this?
[00:42:52] Chris: Probably not but let’s do it.
[00:42:53] Scott: All right, guys. Remember as always, I’m here for you, I believe in you and I’m rooting for you, but you have to, you have to, come on, say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, Chris is going to say it with me today. On the count of three, one, two, three.
[00:43:08] Chris: Take action!
[00:43:08] Scott: Take action! Have an awesome amazing day and I’ll see you right back here on the next episode.
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