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…Actually someone that is on our TAS team Joel Bower I almost put Josh Bower there for a second there but Joel you are here today. I don’t have Josh on my team.
[00:00:24] Joel: I am yeah no Josh.
[00:00:27] Scott: For some reason I wanted to call you Josh this morning, for some reason. I usually get your last name wrong, right?
[00:00:35] Joel: Yeah, Baurle.
[00:00:36] Scott: Baurle. No we’re going to be talking with Josh Bauer today, no Joel Bower.
[00:00:44] Joel: Nailed it.
[00:00:45] Scott: Who is on the other line? No in all seriousness I am really excited to have you back on you were on episode 297 talking about really how to better understand your customers which I think is really important and I wanted to have you back on… I’m going to actually have you back on again because we’ve got a lot of other things we could be talking about too.
For those of you that don’t know Joel is just always doing a little bit of psychology on us over here at the TAS team and Chris Shaffer will definitely back me up on that one but in a good way. You were at our live event in North Carolina. People just loved the conversations that they had with you and really a lot of it came from this discussion right here.
I think this is why we wanted to talk about this is really what to or where to understand where your customers are hanging out and how you can ask them questions and I think we all know questions are powerful. How can you find your audience and then get them to want to buy what you have to sell. I think that’s a big one.
[00:01:53] Joel: Yeah. One of the things that is really hard and you hit on both points is like the nature of asking questions is we don’t always know your market, but we know the questions we ask when we’re trying to find the right people in our audience. Ultimately you are expert in this space. You are selling in there you’re talking to, you’re getting the feedback.
You are the one that’s going to have the answer but sometimes we get locked up and we just want to ask the right question thus we can answer the right question or it gets somewhere about how do I get more people. It’s like who do you have? Most people don’t know and then we kept finding that at the live event that I had this conversation over and over again at the live event.
[00:02:28] Scott: Yeah, no and I love it and we’re going to break it down into five questions that you can ask. I’ve talked about this a lot on the podcast recently is really about asking questions, whether it’s about finding your market or maybe why your numbers aren’t where they are right now or where you want them to be or why are you struggling to be successful.
A lot of it comes down to asking questions and there are some questions here that we can ask ourselves to hopefully find that audience and then serve that audience. Again if you guys did not listen to episode 297, that one there you definitely going to want to listen to because that is really how to better understand your customers and once you get to understand… Like we can find them but once we find them we got to understand the customer themselves and then we can serve them better and give them more of what they want.
This can be that much easier to sell. Let me remind everyone though too we got off on a different start here today but I want to remind everybody the show notes to this episode can be found at theamazingseller.com/423. There will be the show notes, the links, the transcripts all that stuff can be found there and then also the link to the last episode that I had Joel on. Yeah, let’s just dive in here I really do want to just get into the nitty-gritty. Why don’t you kick things off with these questions and then we can dig in.
[00:03:47] Joel: Yeah, you want me to give all five or just start one at a time and dig in deep?
[00:03:49] Scott: Let’s just do one at a time and then we’ll just break it down and dig into it.
[00:03:55] Joel: Okay, let’s start with this first one and I mean this is assuming you’re in a place where you’re already selling and a lot of people we talk to right now are so this is a great question. It is who is currently buying your product right now? That question has so much in it but people do forget to ask this. A lot of times I get questions or I get answers back when I say, “Oh, who is your product for?” “Oh, it’s everybody.”
I’m like, “Okay, who is buying?” “I don’t know.” Ask this question and if you don’t have the answer go get it. We have information on this and even if you aren’t selling your product right now, somebody else is probably selling a similar product. You can go read all of their feedback you can read all the questions that are being asked about it. You can find out a lot about who is buying and why right now.
[00:04:38] Scott: Right, let me ask you this, let’s do a little I guess a little play by play here.
[00:04:43] Joel: Okay.
[00:04:43] Scott: Let’s pretend for a minute that we are selling a garlic press, okay?
[00:04:48] Joel: Yeah.
[00:04:49] Scott: Let’s just use the garlic press I mean why wouldn’t we right? Yeah, let’s just say that we were selling the garlic press and we ask this question, who is buying my product right now? I could say to myself just people are buying it right. It could be a stay at home mom, it could be a working mom, it could be a dad that’s a chef on the weekend. Where do we start to figure this out if we don’t have any idea?
[00:05:13] Joel: Yeah, on Amazon I do look exactly what I said. I go look at the other feedback or I look at my own. What I’m hearing is like it doesn’t make sense right away, you don’t read one and go oh my audience is oh this one person who says they’re a stay at home mom and loves this garlic press because it speeds up her cook time. That’s one point of reference but if you read through 30 reviews or 100 reviews, you start to get an actual expertise.
Yeah, you don’t have tally marks or say I got 100 on these. You could do that. That will give you more clarity, but generally we read through them and we start going oh okay this is the fifth time this has come up. This must be a common problem or this must be a common person who is buying this. It is a little of there is not like an exact signs. I mean later on there can be I mean it’s certain ad platforms and stuff you’re getting all these data just thrown back at you.
[00:06:02] Scott: Well, okay so give us an example there. Let’s do this let’s say that we’re running a giveaway and I think this is a great way to understand your mind right away. Let’s just say that we’re going to do the giveaway and we do this massive cooking bundle because we always talk about building a list and we want to take something that’s going to attract the right customer.
Then from there or just a person that’s interested in this market and then we’re going to also have our product maybe bundled in there so this right here they’re aware of it. Then from there we’re going to start running some Facebook ads let’s say. Give us a little bit of detail and we don’t have to go too deep but I just want people to understand like we can almost identify our audience by number one building our own email list. Then from there we have a target to the email list but then we can look at the demographics, so talk about that.
[00:06:49] Joel: Yeah, so if you’re running something like a Facebook ad what they’re doing in the background is they’re trying to perfect that algorithm and they know more about their customers and who they really are than we do. While those ads are running and they are trying to improve it. They’re also capturing all that information and later they’ll put out a report called their insight inside the backend and they’ll tell you ‘73% of the people who clicked through here were women’.
They’ll tell you if they’re in which age range. They’ll tell you other similar interests. They’ll you a lot of information. If you do yeah, I mean that’s great and we do talk a lot about running the giveaways. Yeah, this is a great extra way and a lot of people that are running the giveaways get thousands of people through here and never go look at the insights. It’s astonishing but yeah it is amazing how much information we get especially when we run ad platforms.
[00:07:37] Scott: Yeah, and we’re doing that right now with the new brand that we’re working with. We’re really starting to narrow it down almost within a 10 year age range is our top. When you start to do that like you said you might start off broad but then you’re going to start narrowing it in and then you can also see other things that they’re interested in, so then you may be able to maybe do your next giveaway that will be even more aligned with what they’re interested in.
Then the other cool thing is this is just a little side note, but we’re actually doing this right now and I know Chris actually he just texted me before I got on here with you. We’re in the process right now of taking our Facebook ads from people that have shared and liked one of our recent live videos or the video that we posted on Facebook. We can see the people that are sharing more of our stuff and then start targeting those people with more of our content because we know that they share that stuff. Crazy. It’s just a it’s just a crazy thing.
We can learn so much from just using Facebook ads and I know we didn’t get on here to talk about Facebook ads but it’s really about identifying where they are and I think a great place to start is Amazon. Through the reviews like you said. The second place I think is Facebook.
[00:09:03] Joel: Yeah.
[00:09:03] Scott: Right, I mean just go in there and start finding groups that are in your market and then start listening and start seeing what’s happening and then start taking away different points from there.
[00:09:15] Joel: Absolutely.
[00:09:16] Scott: I think that’s huge.
[00:09:17] Joel: Yeah, it is.
[00:09:17] Scott: All right so who is buying the product? We kind of figured that out and again you can go to any platform to really figure this out but you almost just have to start somewhere and then start to drill down.
[00:09:28] Joel: One note I just want to say on it is there is a keyword on that who is buying. There is a lot of people who go, “Hey, I gave this to all my family and friends and they really loved it.” There is a difference when someone is buying it and their opinion because they’re willing to get out the wallet and actually pay for it.
That means it’s value to them enough to do that. Sometimes your family and friends are trying to take care of you or they do like it but they would never buy it themselves. It’s a good distinction I just wanted to make that before we moved on.
[00:09:54] Scott: Yeah, no that’s perfect and like you said I mean I think people vote by using your credit card. They’re voting with their wallet. Ultimately in this case we’re looking to sell a product. Now we all know and you know you’re a big fan of this it’s like it’s not always about the sale.
It’s about what else can that person do for you and your brand which is sharing and being someone that’s going to spread the love and all that stuff but ultimately we have to be able to convert it to a sale somewhere along the line. Like you said I mean we can say, hey to all your family members give this a try what do you think? “Oh, I think it’s great.” Yeah.
[00:10:34] Joel: Yeah, you created this?
[00:10:35] Scott: Yeah, you’re awesome yeah of course this is… I would pay a lot of money for this. Right and then you ask people to buy it and then no one buys it.
[00:10:43] Joel: I’ll get to it.
[00:10:45] Scott: Yeah, I’ll get around to that. You mean I actually have to pay for it? No I can’t do that.
[00:10:49] Joel: Oh I can if you can give me another one.
[00:10:52] Scott: All right so let’s move on to the second question. What’s the second question we need ask ourselves?
[00:10:56] Joel: The second question is silky and actually many times it has slipped out just in the previous one, is why do they buy? You’ve got all this list of people and it’s great you start making the distinction, you go okay well more women buy than men, but why? Because we need that information. We need to be able to get that information back to truly understand it.
That’s why I like the reviews. One of the first places I go is because I get to hear the story not just oh here is a tally. I get to hear, “Oh, this is why I like it, this is why it was valuable to me.” That information is key because guess what I’m going to use that for almost immediately is to actually tell the people that haven’t bought it yet that this is also included because maybe this person assumed that and made the purchase but what if I also had it in the bullet points.
What if I had it in the description? Now I can start to go okay I know this group is buying more often than anybody else. I know exactly why it had some sort of convenient feature. Now I’m saying super convenient garlic press in the title. Who is going to buy that now? It’s the same person that was questioning around the fence or had to do more research to find that out and I’ll see’s it everywhere. That is crucial.
[00:12:01] Scott: Yeah, that is crucial and I think that’s a big takeaway for people and everyone is always thinking of okay, how do I find the products that are selling? Well, Amazon again is the platform that allows us to see that which is pretty amazing and I always say to people that say, “Oh, I’ve got this great next this new thing, this new product, this new idea.” I think that’s awesome people are trying to innovate.
They’re trying to come up with their little widget whatever. If you’re out there and you’re trying to earn money from online sales and you’re especially if you’re new at this and you’re just trying to get the wheels going. Why would you guess at this point? It’s the information is public. It is there, they’re giving it to us.
On the same note, it’s never been a better time for you to actually hear what people are saying that they want or that they like about a certain product and how they’re using it and then from there and I know you love this is then you can turn that into part of your sales messaging or part of your messaging just in the description and stuff.
Like there is so much information there and the other thing is people don’t talk about this much. You go to Home Depot, you go to Lowes, you go to any of those other sites, they have review engines in there too. You can go see what other people are saying on different platforms. It doesn’t just have to be Amazon. It’s just that Amazon makes it so easy.
[00:13:25] Joel: Yeah, it’s usually just a lot there so I can do it in one place but yeah you can go on different places and see. The thing that I also understand and just as a thing I’ve noticed when I did other platforms, there was like a different audience on each website. People respond differently on Walmart. I have found in most brands that Amazon has the most I think authentic user reviews.
There is not a bunch of fanboys there is not a bunch of people just like framing it just because they can. That’s another thing I’ve noticed when you go to the other ones. Yeah, getting information from different points just be aware that take it with what’s going on in that platform.
Understand hey this was this grouping was very different than what I read on Amazon why was that? Just ask that well another level of questioning but it’s good to understand it because then you’re making good distinctions, because you’re going to in most cases the people that’s new that’s going to be selling on Amazon. I know some people are going to start selling on Walmart too and Jet in and everywhere else.
[00:14:23] Scott: Yeah, but I just think that at this point though we’re trying to figure out where our audience is and then from there what are they saying about it and like how are they using and I think that’s a powerful thing to be able to then insert into your messaging maybe even in the people that you’re targeting because now you’re like, wait a minute here they’re using this for physical therapy and I thought they were using it for just recreation. Wait a minute here maybe I should start targeting physical therapy versus this. You know what I mean?
[00:14:52] Joel: Exactly, yeah you open whole other markets yeah.
[00:14:55] Scott: Yeah, I mean you can position that and a lot of times people are like… Actually Chris and I just got off of a coaching call we did for the 400th episode. We had people submit their stories and stuff and we picked two winners. Ryan, and Ryan if you’re listening awesome job. We basically had a nice little coaching call and his whole thing was he is selling and he did little tests.
He wasn’t really clear what his product was being used for. It could be used for multiple things. You can use it for just about anything but we don’t really know who is using it specifically for one thing. If we can identify that then we can almost tailor it towards that market. Think about this. Batting gloves and golf gloves they’re basically the same thing.
You know what we put a little extra pad in the one part of the glove for baseball players so now we’re going to call it a baseball glove or batting gloves. That’s catered towards that market, that audience. Now you’re going to buy that you’re not going to buy golf gloves to hit a baseball. It’s just not the same market.
[00:16:10] Joel: Yeah, and what’s cool about that when you start to niche down like that the value, the perceived value of your product goes up without an increase in cost which is pretty amazing. People always are so, they get so concerned that they’re going to lose out on the market rather than going into a market that’s going to actually crush it. It’s like, “Oh no, but I can’t also if I start to market it that way then I can’t sell to both. If I just say it’s athletic glove then I can sell both.”
No, you’re going sell a lot less to each group so much so that you may actually been way better off even sub-niching inside one of those and going, I want beginner golfers or I want advanced golfers. There is the distinctions sometimes the market is big enough even as you niche down then you’re not worried about losing those extra. You can actually now communicate better and you’re going to make way more. You’re going to make way more in sales, you can justify your price point better. You’re not competing with race to the bottom like so many products are now.
[00:17:03] Scott: Yeah, and those were some great points. All right cool, so why did they buy it, we figured that out. Now what’s the question?
[00:17:10] Joel: Okay, I just wanted there is a bit of changes so the first two questions were where always like to start. What do we already got? What assets do we have right now? That’s who is buying it and why are they buying it? We’re just trying to collect that information the next one is to start to sit out where we may have missed the mark because we weren’t thinking about it.
The ideas from why they buy it will lead to the next one. Who desperately needs what I sell? This is not necessarily someone who is already buying but because of what you learned about your product, who out there really does need and doesn’t know about it yet. This is starting to bridge your thinking about okay, now I do have other possibilities but why, what would I do or how would I target them differently?
This is where you’re starting to find not just maybe one audience or maybe not the one you were selling to right now. There is a very small group but how do you expand? In a lot of cases what I’ve noticed is the people that are buying then are really raving fans already that are currently buying also have this desperate need. This just gives you another refinement and then some ways to think about outside of your current market. How do I get more people in here? How do I get more people to see it that really need it?
[00:18:13] Scott: Yeah, well here is the only thing I met that I want to ask you.
[00:18:17] Joel: Yeah.
[00:18:17] Scott: You know because some people are selling like a door hinge, right and then some people are selling a really cool little widget that you can use that is either fun or maybe you’re a hunter and you’re selling something that’s going to help them or make that hobby fun. If you’re selling something as boring as a door hinge who desperately needs what I sell?
You can say well it’s someone that just their door fell off and I got to fix the door. Talk about that because a lot of people don’t think along the lines of they’re like or they don’t desperately need my product but there is a couple of different mindsets I think when it comes to who needs it like desperately you need it because something just happened and you need it urgently. You need it now or the other one is that you just need it and you want it real bad because you’re just a diehard.
[00:19:11] Joel: That is a great example because it’s not if you think their problem is sexy. It’s not if you think that hey this is a real problem or not a real problem. People have all kinds of ties to it. If someone their door fell off and they want a hinge yeah, that’s pretty desperate because now their door is not working. It’s just hanging there and they’re getting pressure from their family like why isn’t the front door fixed yet?
It starts to become very desperate. It seems light to us because well, we’re also really used to the problem. You mean oh this is our door you just get hundreds of these and they’ll cost 30 cents a piece and no big deal. If you start knowing this, we have background information and start to turn it from they don’t care about the item. They care about the features.
They care about the benefits to them ultimately those features bring. Wherever they’re at is what matters. That is a great point I was like no I don’t think of it, someone is going all my life is over if I don’t find the door hinge. That person might be in a lot of stress because of it and we just don’t know. Finding that group is a great question is like okay well people that want to upgrade their door or want to replace the hinge.
That might not be desperate but the person where the door just broke that person is desperate more so. That’s what where we’re looking at a scale is like okay, well if I show this in front of more people that are just oh maybe I’ll update my house sometime I’d like a prettier door versus the person that goes my door just fell off. Who do you think is going to buy right now? That’s why that question is so valuable because that’s the person that you can actually target and influence today and start getting your numbers up.
[00:20:46] Scott: Yeah, I know that’s a great point. All right, cool, so we’re ready to move on to the fourth one?
[00:20:52] Joel: We are. It’s actually a perfect switch because now that we know that they have a desperate problem, we have to figure how to find this person that has a door that fell off. This is one of the ideas, is who already sells to them. Who is already selling things in this space? The reason we want to know this is sometimes we can use it for targeting, we can find their audiences and we can target them. We can also go look out at how they’re targeting their audiences. We can learn so much but just ask yourself…
[00:21:19] Scott: How do we do that? How would we do that? Let’s just think through that really quickly and I’m asking this as the listener. How would you say that you would go out there and find other people that are currently selling and how would you reverse engineer what they’re doing?
[00:21:32] Joel: Yeah, so one of the first things okay, who else sells to them? I’d probably start looking at Home Depot first, I look at the general stores and just think okay, how does someone get there are they going to go just to the store or they’re going to do it online? If the person is doing online are we going to find a DIY, are they going to find a how to video first that ultimately gets them there?
I’m trying to find out where the customer is entering into the equation because there is a lot of times where people go okay, well I’m not in Home Depot. I can’t go have a store location so I’m not competing. The person did a lot of things right before that, before they got in their car and went to Home Depot. If you can somehow enter into that so maybe they looked up how to fix their door hinge.
They’ve never done before so they’re looking at DIY videos. Well a lot of your competitors are probably already doing that. You can start to follow that chain and start to go okay, well where do the sale actually happen here because then you’ll see a kit or you’ll see like an upgrade to a hinge that didn’t know about. You want the absolute noise or noise list hinge, no squeaking ever guaranteed for life.
Suddenly you’re seeing these interjections of, “Yeah, you can do it yourself,” or “Grab a hinge from Home Depot,” or “You can get the ultra-hinge. It’s easier to install,” and then they start to go in through their marketing method that way. Really the question is to start to queue up that you’re looking for it. Who else sells to them? Do some research yourself, get online, start searching around. Think about what that buyer is going to be doing before they find someone to buy it from.
[00:23:00] Scott: I think the big sticking point for a lot of people is just who else sells to them is what they’re going to say but they’re going to say well, if someone is already selling to him how can I sell to him too?
[00:23:12] Joel: Yeah, that’s a great point.
[00:23:14] Scott: That’s a big one right, I’ve been hearing that one the whole time.
[00:23:16] Joel: Yeah, well, let’s break it down with Home Depot. I don’t like running to stores all the time, I run out of time very fast it seems and for some reason going to a store and coming back if I had to add an extra one and get a hinge as well, that seems to like take a lot of my day. Popping on my phone, jumping on Amazon and saying, hey, if I can get those hinges in two days I think my family can take it. I’m going to find the hinge I need and I’m going to order it and I’m going to get prime.
[00:23:40] Scott: Yeah, right.
[00:23:41] Joel: There is a little bit of the first assumption will be well if that person is really desperate for that wouldn’t they do that? Well, you’re balancing on all the things you’re doing or they would actually want to do. Now they are like okay, well honey I’m just going to take the door off right now. I’m waiting for the hinge to come from prime it’s going to home in two days.
That’s fine and now we have a different place to play and they very well might be looking up a guide online. That’s happening a lot more even people like even if they’ve done it before they’re like, “Man I’m remember what I did last time I’m going to find how to put this up right.” A lot more people even if they are handy themselves and likely to do projects like this they’re still going to say, hey, let me check out a DIY real quick, make sure I’ve got all the pieces I need.
[00:24:19] Scott: Yeah, and I think for people also and again we’re off on a little bit of a little side area. It actually works perfectly because think about this and I think using the hinge thing as an example is the first thing that you generally will do is like my door just broke how do I fix it? Then the second part of that is just well here is how you fix it and then oh by the way you need these four parts to fix it, click here to get your four parts.
[00:24:47] Joel: Yeah, and you get ready to go.
[00:24:47] Scott: Then that’s and that can whatever right and that’s going to lead you over to wherever you can buy them. Anyone out there thinking to themselves like I don’t have a sexy product that I can sell, we just gave you a very unsexy product that you could sell by helping someone with that problem.
If you sold plumbing stuff, you sold new traps for under your sink and you wanted to sell those and yours are special because it’s a flex kind of basically fits all different applications and I know that’s a big problem in a lot of people’s houses because I’ve dealt with it. Let’s say that that was your thing and you came up with a solution that was a universal trap right, well you have videos on there showing people how to replace their old trap or how to extend the pipe or whatever.
On there is oh by the way here is our special deluxe flex trap or whatever. It leads people over there. I just want people to understand like you can find them. Again we want to know where they are but then we want to know like you just said Joel, who else sells to them and then see how they’re selling to them and you’ll probably find out they were led there by a piece of content of some kind unless they’re just going to Amazon directly.
They maybe going there directly because I already know what I need. I already know I need a new sink trap or whatever. Anyway, just wanted to throw that because people need to understand that it doesn’t need to be sexy in order to sell something it just needs to be done in a way that leads people in there and if you look at other people that are currently selling just model what they’re doing or similar things.
This way here you can lead people to your product. Cool, so where are we at now? Are we done with that one there which is who else sells to them which is basically looking up on Amazon or even just looking at like just in that market where people are buying?
[00:26:35] Joel: Yeah. It’s a question it was kind of where we got you said it got us a little to the weeds but sometimes these questions do because they start making us think about different things like how are they buying? If you got to the Home Depot and you just said, “Oh I give up,” then you would have missed out on huge opportunity. The other thing now that we’re trying to build this together who desperately needs.
You know one of the things that has been irritating for me whenever I did a home improving project is I forgot one thing or two things. I got the wrong size screw or I forgot the tape to wrap the plumbing and now I have to run back to the store for that exact same thing.
Now we’re opening up opportunities too because what if you included all the tools they need, all of the extra things. They don’t have to think about anything. They get the kit with all of it ready. How convenient would that be and because you’re sourcing it at higher volumes, you can get them possibly even cheaper than if they ran down and bought all that stuff at Home Depot.
[00:27:24] Scott: True, yeah.
[00:27:25] Joel: There is all kinds players when we start to really think about them, think about where they’re at, how to get to them. You start opening up way more opportunities because you’re not thinking like everybody else. How do I move this product? How do I move his product? No, how do I build a great relationship and really answer the problems of my audience and suddenly you’re on a new game.
[00:27:42] Joel: Yeah. It requires a little bit of work on our part. We got to do a little bit of work by asking questions. By asking the questions it’s going to tell us what to do next. It’s funny and I know you’re a bigger fan of asking questions because your mind will tell you the answer or we’ll search for the answer.
Just kind of go out there and try to find that answer, but so many people want to know all the answers before they actually do this and I love this exercise because we were again, we’re uncovering as we go through it but like you said we went off into the weeds a little bit but we did because we needed to.
[00:28:22] Joel: Yeah, and that’s great. A lot of the people when we help people it’s the resources of asking the right question unlocks all of other stuff they already have. They’ve been thinking about this a lot not a little bit. They have a lot of information but generally people get stuck I’ll just point out because there is another side to questions. They ask the wrong questions or why will no one buy my product?
That’s not a question you want to answer to. You want why would people buy? And it’s a trap because once they start asking that question they start getting really crappy answers and they start feeling bad. When you’re feeling bad you’re not like very optimistic about your future.
You’re not optimistic about the answers, you’re not going, “Oh they could be here usually, oh they are nowhere. No one buys this product.” That’s usually what we get when we help or what if someone did? Someone has got to this product didn’t just you didn’t just pull it out of ether. Why do people currently buy it and now we can start working back.
[00:29:12] Scott: I think that’s a big one right there guys and we need to highlight that one with a yellow highlighter. Say that again Joel like the questions that a lot of people are asking are why isn’t anybody buying my product? When that doesn’t really do anything other than really it’s going to try to figure that out but you’re not really asking the question of who is buying my product or who is buying a product similar to mine or whatever. That’s the better question.
[00:29:41] Joel: Yeah, and if you’re right and that would be great if people did this and said, okay, why are people not buying and it’s like boom, boom, boom. Okay these are three problems I can address. Now how can I solve those problems? That would be different but that’s not really where people go.
They usually go why will they not buy it and then they give a list of like 10 things and guess how good they feel about their product right now. No one buys it because well it’s ugly or because it’s the wrong color oh because it’s cheaper elsewhere. All over sudden you’re locked in and you go no, this no one wants it versus how could I sell it? Who does want it? Why do they need it?
Why am I going to do something different than my competitors to really allow them to get what they truly need not what I think they want? We start going the other way and suddenly we’re empowered to actually answer in a way that will move us or actually help our customers too. If you’ve got that I mean that’s how I do it just kicked out for the kit thing but man if I knew I went to look up plumbing stuff right now and said I have been having problem with my toilet.
They said, “Hey, here is everything you need. We’ve got the right wrench, we’ve got the right pieces, we’ve got the right parts. We even got the different adaptors that you use in different areas all in a box, you pay 30 bucks for it I’ll send it to you right now or you can go down in the store and buy all that stuff piece off.” I’m probably buying that $30 kit.
I don’t plan on doing this a lot so it’s not like I need all of the pieces to do it 100 times. I’m not in the business so I’m going to do it once, give me everything I need. I would do that and I would be happier about that company taking the time to actually think about my needs and to set that up instead of going, “Oh, we couldn’t sell this plumbing tool because it’s not sexy.”
[00:31:17] Scott: It’s funny. A funny story is I do come… You know that I’m from my background is in construction so I know a lot of the ins and outs of building. I always get hung up in the plumbing aisle. If you ever follow me around you’ll see me start out in Home Depot or Lowes and I’ll get my things that are on my list and then I go to the Plumbing Aisle and then I’m there 15, 20 minutes taking adaptors and making sure that they line up.
Grabbing my different sleeves or whatever right and I’m still walking out of there thinking, “I don’t think I’ve got what I need.” A perfect example is just this past weekend not even kidding I went to Lowes and I got some piping because I’ve got some drainage on the side of my house that I’m getting it away from the house.
I had to put some pipe in and some elbows and some 45s and all of these stuff and sure enough I get down to my last little bit there and there was an adaptor that I needed to join up to an existing pipe that I didn’t have. I was like, “There it is, there it is again.” If someone would have like maybe a kit I might have bought it. Anyway yeah, I mean so to make it easier for people where they’re like you know what I don’t want to go to the plumbing aisle because every time I go there it’s just like misery.
It’s all I’m always thinking I’m going to forget something. It’s just a hassle and I spent 15 minutes to 20 minutes of my time. If I can just order that one thing and know that this person did all the work for me and they gave me all the right parts then I’ll do it. It seems pretty basic but a lot of people miss that simple thing. Anyway we’ve got another question here to ask ourselves, don’t we?
[00:33:01] Joel: We still have one more yeah.
[00:33:02] Scott: We’ve got one more question to ask ourselves.
[00:33:04] Joel: I know quite the moment to have.
[00:33:07] Scott: What is that last question Joel?
[00:33:09] Joel: Drum roll please! Okay where can I talk to them now? This isn’t necessarily sell to them. This is where can I talk to them? The reason I had this question instead of where can I sell to them now is because we are in the business in most cases of really understanding our audience. If you do that the next product choices you make will be obvious.
You already have a ready audience to buy because you’re caring about the right thing. If you look at really large companie. The products keep coming and going but the audience is really what they’re taking care of. You look at Google, you look at Facebook, you look at all those platforms they exist and they’re so huge because they kept learning what the audience needed and took care of them first.
Not, “Here is Facebook 2.0, Facebook 3.0 .” They don’t do that. They have features but that’s not what they’re taking care of. This we want to actually know them and we want to know them better than our competitor. A lot of the times the competitors won’t go read the reviews. They won’t go jump one forums and go find out where the real problem is. They won’t send their products to the people.
If we’ve already established who desperately needs, who is currently buying or if you have a new product idea or a new variation on your product and you were to send that out to them and have a full conversation before you wrote all your marketing material or wrote all of your listing material. How incredible will that be because now you really are talking to the right group, maybe not one person but maybe 10 of them.
Suddenly you’re an expert in the space in a way that no one else is. People they always when I say that to them they go, “No way man I just started this, I barely know the product.” It’s like, but even if you did that work, you’ve done work that other people won’t do because they’ve think the same thing.
[00:34:51] Scott: That’s big.
[00:34:51] Joel: Yeah.
[00:34:52] Scott: Yeah, it’s work. Like when anyone that ever hears that they want to get to the finish line the quickest but the whole thing it’s for me personally is like understand. You can launch the product and not know as much but as you learn it it’s going to get better in my opinion and people want to know how do I bump up my conversions?
How do I sell more? Well, you’re understanding your market more and then you start to serve up that message to them more, so that when there you’re the one that’s the go-to. They know that you know the market and you’re in that market. Instead of being a one size it fits all. I think that’s what makes it hard.
[00:35:33] Joel: Yeah, absolutely and it’s too much to have for any one person to answer to anyway. You think if you fill the room with 100 people each with varying opinions and believes and you had to come to decide what product is going to be best or what’s best about your product and you had to listen to all of them equally how well do you think that conversation would go?
First is you had 20 people that are more or less in the same problem and now you’re making just distinctions on what feature they really like and why. Which one is going to get you where you feel like oh man, I’ve gotten a lot of really good information, I’m ready to go do something. In most cases the everyone approach gets you bogged down because now you’re hearing oh this person says it’s great because of this or this person is saying it’s great because even if it’s all good feedback.
You now have 100 bullet points and you can’t put 100 bullet points on a listing. We tried and it’s just not effective and those five the reason they keep it at five is because Amazon knows sales. They know the numbers, they’re watching conversion on everything, so they know. Get to the point, if you don’t have it if you haven’t figured it out yet I’m going to let my buyer move on to the next person because they’re going to buy somewhere if the person can communicate directly to them.
[00:36:41] Scott: Yeah, and I think also like going into your messaging or talking about your messaging. It can only get better by knowing more and that can even go over into your ads now like now when you start running Facebook ads even if it’s for your giveaway or maybe you’re going to do something that’s just on your product.
You’re going to know the market better so that language is going to get them to number one attract the right people but then also get them to resonate with your ad and your content. Then from there that’s just going to help you further than saying… It’s like the mass mailers like that get sent out. We used to that in the construction world where we would send out to like 20,000 zip codes in the entire area.
We wouldn’t know that some of those people are in apartments. They don’t need replacement windows. They don’t own the building but we would still send it because it’s part of that route. We knew that we were getting some that were and we were guessing and then we wait for the phone to ring. We’d spend 1,000 bucks for that to do that.
Now they’ve got a little bit smarter where you can target people in specific things that they’ve done and mail out to the right people. I know if you’re a senior in high school, you’re going to start getting mail because they have these lists that come out that you’re graduating. You’re going to start getting hammered with, whether it’s college or whether it’s just things that you’re going to do after you graduate. For the most part this is going to allow us to target the right people and then also message them with the right message, so I think it’s huge I think it’s really big.
[00:38:23] Joel: We did talk to piece of this earlier I just want to connect to that and it’s interesting when you start asking questions like this it does start to build and we’ve asked most of these questions by Tom Margate and we had already answered them in some way. We already started working in our fake example we had already worked it up. In this one we were talking about the DIY videos.
Well, go watch some DIY videos in your space where your part is required even if it’s in a non-sexy category and go read what the lines underneath and go chat it up. Go say, “Hey, what would you have like to have seen in a hinge or in if there was a kit that was to be made what do you think needed to be in it?” You got all kinds of stuff where now that’s where we can talk to them that also opens up ads too.
[00:39:05] Scott: Oh yeah, huge and it’s funny I just out of as an example I wanted to show people how to find a way to write to their audience to get them interested. Something like seven lures every bass fisherman needs to own or something like that. I did a little search and I did this I think I recorded it already, I forget. I recorded a session of me finding this and if I was going to sell lures I would want to know what kind of (no pun intended) bait is out there to get me to be attracted this.
I found this article and this article led me to a brand okay because now they wrote an article. It was on their blog, it was indexed by Google. I found it and then from there it led me to their brand which I went on their Instagram 200,000+ people, they had YouTube I think 75,000, Facebook had like 400,000, like crazy.
All they’re doing is pushing out content around this market because they’re messaging the right people. They’re attracting the right people and guess what they sell, a recurring monthly. It’s called a mystery tackle box and every month for 30 bucks you get a variety of new lures or fishing stuff to try out as a bass fisherman.
[00:40:35] Joel: That’s so cool, yeah.
[00:40:36] Scott: Right, so I didn’t know the market but all I did was I asked the one thing I go what would someone in this market, what would they put out? I did seven and then I did five and maybe ten. I would find different things that people would write these lists about. If you’re in the market you might want to try like seven like I did. Seven lures every bass fisherman should own or the same thing just change it to your market.
Find something and then reverse engineer where they’re getting the attraction, where they’re getting the attention. Then from there what messaging they’re talking about. Then from there reversing it back to a product because ultimately that’s generally what they’re probably doing and it’s a content strategy, but it works. Anyway I just thought I would share that because it’s really everything we’re talking about.
It’s like identifying where they’re hanging out but then also identify what they’re buying. Then how that your competition or even if it’s not your competition someone that’s in your space is marketing to them or getting attention. You can learn so much from that. Is there any other questions we should be asking ourselves or is that it? Is that the five?
[00:41:47] Joel: Those are core five from this but that brings a bit excellent point and just what you demoed right there. You asked a good question and you got a good answer. Yeah, you did a little bit of research, you didn’t know off the top of your head but that was fantastic. We’re going to give you all five of these and these are definitely, there is a lot going on here and this will get you started.
Don’t think these are the only five questions to help you get an audience that really is like raving fans for your product. You can start to think about better questions if you find yourself going why do people not buy, ask yourself why would people break down my door to buy? That’s when by changing the nature of those questions even the same ones we might already be asking in a slightly different way you can add so much to your business.
[00:42:26] Scott: No I agree 100% and that’s why I wanted to get you on here because I know that you love talking about this stuff and you’re pretty good at it.
[00:42:34] Joel: Thank you.
[00:42:35] Scott: Yeah, well you know I do have to give credit where credit is due and I mean we had you at the TAS Breakthrough Live event where it was our workshop and you had a breakout session and about half the people went with you and we were telling people it was about right time to wrap that section up and people were like, “Oh can we go a little bit longer? Can we go a little bit longer?”
I know that people really resonated with what you were saying and really drilling in and that’s why I wanted to get you on here to do that here for everyone that wasn’t able to make it out to our TAS Breakthrough Event. Yeah, I just wanted to get you on Joel it’s always fun talking. I know you and I and Chris and our team get to talk quite often.
I wanted to share exactly your mindset in this stuff and I mean I know moving forward we’re going to have you back on because there is a lot of other stuff we can share as far as getting over the fears of success and all that mindset and discovering your why and all that fun stuff that you and I and everyone is really a big fan of. I think this will give people a good start from there. Is there anything else that you want to wrap up with before we officially wrap up?
[00:43:41] Joel: I just want to give them the five again that way they have them in one place. Feel free to write these down or this is a podcast you can come back and listen to it at any time but who is buying my product now is the first question. Why do they buy it? Who desperately needs what I sell?
Some of those answers can come from the questions above. Who else sells to them? Now there was one point I just wanted to bring up with this one. It’s also to find out who sells other things to them so maybe there is an advantage of a partnership not just a competitive space. Lastly where can I talk to them now?
[00:44:13] Scott: Yeah, that’s big. Like you said I think highlighting that in not just your competition but even potential partner. Okay, cool so yeah that’s awesome so guys the show notes can be found at theamazingseller.com/423. All of that that we just went over will be there for you and you can also go check out the last episode that I had with Joel which was how to better understand your customers.
We really dig into that part of it and all of this stuff to me is really super important guys. Don’t skip over this, if you want to be different than your competition this is what you have to do and you need to get good at it. Remember, you’re not going to be good at it overnight. It’s going to take practice just like anything else.
If you’re doing product research same thing. The more you do it, the better you’re going to get at it and the better you get at it, you’re going to have that much more of an advantage moving into any market that you decide to. Joel I just want to say thank again I really appreciate you coming on. We’re going to wrap this up and I think you’re going to help me wrap this up. Are you going to do it with me? I always make Chris do it with me at the end.
[00:45:15] Joel: Well, can I throw one thing in just because of what you said.
[00:45:17] Scott: You can.
[00:45:18] Joel: You’re saying and I really want people to win, I really want people to get this and sometimes I’ll ask one of these questions and guess what, no answer comes. Keep asking the question like Scott is saying practice it. Sometimes the practice is you haven’t asked yourself questions like these and you’ve got to get yourself used to looking for it because you might answer who is buying my product?
“Man I don’t know,” “Well, how did you find out?” I don’t know and you eventually you’ll start to see different things, you’re oh that’s what it is. Oh that’s what it is, oh that’s who is doing this and it’s just a great thing to understand that it’s you’re not going to like out of the shoot, right away have the most amazing answers. You’re going to build it up over time and eventually you’re going to have a skill that nobody else has.
[00:45:59] Scott: Yeah, absolutely an asset and I’ve said that time and time again things that I’ve learned 10, 12, 15 years ago in the beginning stages of my online business experience. I have things I learned back then that I still use today that gives me an advantage over people that are just starting and that’s why the podcast allows me to really help people be able to kind of skip a lot of the trial and errors and try to get right to it and building an email list is number one for me in separating ourselves in understanding the market and really understanding that you’re serving a product to a market.
[00:46:41] Joel: Yeah, excellent.
[00:46:42] Scott: Anyway, so okay now we’re going to officially wrap it up that Joel got us off track just because every time Joel gets in the room he’s always got but wait a minute one more thing I wanted to say.
[00:46:51] Joel: Just one more.
[00:46:51] Scott: Just one more, all right let’s wrap this up and we’re going to do this officially with Joel on today. Let’s see if he’s got the chops guys. All right guys so as always remember I’m here for you, I believe in you and I’m rooting for you but you have to, you have to… Come on say it with me, say it loud, say it proud Joel is going to say it with me on the count of three. Are you ready Joel?
[00:47:14] Joel: Yeah, I’m ready.
[00:47:14] Scott: All right, one, two, three, “Take action.”
[00:47:17] Joel: “Take action.”
[00:47:19] Scott: Have an awesome amazing day, what did you say?
[00:47:22] Joel: I didn’t do the pause.
[00:47:24] Scott: That’s all right.
[00:47:25] Joel: Action.
[00:47:25] Scott: All right wait a minute, wait a minute count of three ready, one, two, three, “Take action.”
[00:47:30] Joel: “Take action.”
[00:47:32] Scott: Have an awesome day guys we’ll see you right back here on the next episode. Joel that wasn’t bad, not bad.
[00:47:39] Joel: Thanks Scott.
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