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…sponsored ads or pay-per-click for your Amazon listings and I have invited on my good friend Chris Shaffer. What’s up my friend?
[00:00:27] Chris: What’s going on brother?
[00:00:28] Scott: How are you? Are you ready to dive into this confusing topic?
[00:00:32] Chris: I am. You know I’m excited. This brings out the naughty side of me and you know that. So anytime we get to talk about sponsored ads, it’s a good time. I’ll tell you what though, it’s a topic that because it’s not one of these like paint by numbers 100% things, like product research we can talk about like 10 by 10 by one and does the product meet that criteria exactly? But PPC’s sponsored ads is like 50% art and 50% science.
[00:00:58] Scott: Yeah.
[00:00:59] Chris: So, it’s one of those topics that can be very, very confusing for people. I think we found a way to break it down a little bit better than we have in the past, so I’m excited to chat through with you.
[00:01:07] Scott: Yeah, I know and we’ve also reached out to Jeff and Brandon from Seller Labs and they are also going to be doing a workshop for us which I’m excited about and we’ve actually kind of flushed some of these different topics out with them and yeah, it’s going to be really, really good. And if you guys are interested in checking out that training, I actually said that we were going to record it but as you are listening to this, it’s already been recorded because we were recording that on the Monday of this week, you are listening to this on Wednesday. So if you want to watch that replay of that workshop, head over to theamazingseller.com/ppc.
The other thing that is going to be located there is all of the resources about sponsored ads. So we are going to be doing this entire week. If you are listening to this again on March 22nd, then this whole week we are going to be, we are calling it, pay-per-click week or sponsored ads week because we are going to do Facebook lives. After we did the workshop or that we are doing the workshop there was a lot of questions that were coming in. And what we decided to do is answer those questions the best that we can throughout this entire week and all of those recordings will also be linked up inside of this post on theamazingseller.com/ppc and any other resources that we create in the future will be located there.
So you definitely want to go head over there, check out that workshop reply and all of the resources that we are putting on that page and including… It’s going to be a lot of fun because this is definitely a topic that I get asked about a lot. And I got to be honest, like I’m still learning it too Chris and you know there is different terminology that people get hung up on and I want to cover that. There is also this key word versus search terms like what does that mean? I want to be able to make that very, very clear, because I think if people understand that, everything else will make a lot more sense. The other thing I want to mention here is if you are launching a brand new product and you are not using sponsored ads, you need to start using sponsored ads.
[00:03:08] Scott: A lot of people ask me Chris, “How do I launch a product now that these review groups are no longer TOS?” Which they never really were but I don’t know kind of where you can give away a product at a discount. You still can do that to your own list and all that stuff. You just can’t ask for reviews directly because you gave them a deal but how do you launch products know? And really simply, you go out there and you get sales using sponsored ads.
That’s one way of doing it. You also build your own list which we’ve talked about in the past but today I really think this topic is going to help people in the launch process and if you have a product that you just want to boost or if you want to get more sales on that product to then get you organically ranked. And I think that’s really, really what we are going to do here today. So I’m excited Chris. Are you ready to dive in or jump into this topic that’s really confusing to a lot of people?
[00:03:59] Chris: Let’s do it.
[00:04:00] Scott: All right cool. So let’s just dive in here to the terminology and the ad types. Maybe you want to kind of run through these here and maybe we can clarify. I’ll ask the questions to you if we are going through this, if there is questions that I think people may be asking because I get a lot of questions about this. But why don’t you just start going through the basics and the terminology.
[00:04:19] Chris: Okay. So I guess the question to you is, “What terms do you want to cover?” Because there is a whole bunch.
[00:04:24] Scott: Yeah. Well, I think auto targeting versus manual. Like what does that mean? Like you know, what does auto targeting mean? And I know to a lot of people it might seem really obvious but it’s not when you are first starting. I had a guy that I met in Dallas, Chris and he said, “Scott before I even knew about this Amazon thing you kept saying keywords, I have no idea what you are talking about.” Like and to us it’s just like you know second hand, we talk and we just talk about it all the time. So why don’t we just break that down. So what is auto targeting versus manual?
[00:04:53] Chris: So there’s two ways that you can kind of get your campaigns going. The first one is auto and that’s basically where you let Amazon pick all of the things that you show up for. The other one is manual where you say hey Amazon, here is some things that you can sort of riff on, some seeds for you to grow from if you will. So that’s when you would go… You guys may have heard us talk about in the past like scrape your competitors listing for some keywords. You actually give Amazon the list of things and you say I want to show up for things related to these words. Does that make sense?
[00:05:25] Scott: Yeah, it makes sense. And the one thing I do want to highlight here too because I think it’s important is if you are going to run an auto… We’re going to talk about the different types that we would suggest running and it’s changed a little bit. I got to be honest, there’s the old way and the new way. We are going to talk about that. But understand this, if you are allowing Amazon to go out and target words for you or keywords for you or search terms for you, if your listing is not optimized, it’s not going to do a really good job.
So the very first thing that you need to do is make sure that your listing is fully optimized. Meaning you have a good title, you have good bullets and you have good description and you have good keywords in the backend. Now and this doesn’t mean like it has to be like all dialed in 100%. It just needs to be the obvious keywords need to be there. If you are selling a garlic press, garlic press better be in there. Stainless steel garlic press better be in there because understand this, if you put in garlic press, It’s going to also give you related stuff about a garlic press because Amazon knows that. So again, don’t think that you have to cover all of those keywords, you just want all of the main relevant search terms or keywords inside of your listing. So this way here when amazon is looking at it, whether you are running manual or not you still need to be relevant. Is that true Chris?
[00:06:38] Chris: Yes. It’s absolutely true and that’s one of the places where a lot of get stuck because they say, “Oh, I’m not getting any impressions.” Which is another word that we should probably talk about.
[00:06:46] Scott: Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that.
[00:06:48] Chris: So impressions, when you guys see or hear us talking about impressions here today, what we are talking about is just simply that your ad has shown up on a page for somebody. So if you see you got five impressions on a certain keyword or search term it means that your ad showed up five times for different users.
[00:07:05] Scott: And do you pay for that? Do you pay for that impression?
[00:07:07]Chris: No. Not within Amazon because Amazon has what they call PPC which is another term that we should define that is pay-per-click. So it can show up a million times but if you only get one person to click on it, you only pay once. Does that make sense?
[00:07:22] Scott: It makes total sense and again I’m asking the questions as the listener because I get a lot of people say this. Like, “Scott what’s the difference? What’s an impression? What’s a click? What does that mean? When do I pay for it?” And very simply put an impression like Chris said it’s how many times your ad has been displayed on a page. It doesn’t mean that you are going to get charged for that. It just means how many times it’s been displayed. And that’s also a metric that we are going to want to look at here and we are going to talk about that, as far as why that’s important and how we can get more exposure but then the click, that’s actually really important because that means we’ve had someone click on it and we’ve paid for it and there’s another term that you are going to probably see on abbreviation which is CPC. So you want to definitely… Chris why don’t you talk about that.
[00:08:07] Chris: So CPC unlike PPC, CPC is cost-per-click. That’s how much you are actually paying when someone clicks.
[00:08:16] Scott: Exactly. And so let’s talk about this real quick. If I want to show up on a certain page, for a certain keyword or search term if I bid a dollar, okay, does that mean I’m going to spend a dollar all the time or what does that mean?
[00:08:34] Chris: No, so the way that amazon’s bidding system works. And notice the keyword there, ‘bidding system’.
[00:08:40] Scott: Yes.
[00:08:41] Chris: You’re saying the maximum that I’m willing to pay is $1. You may pay $1 but you may only pay 32 cents. It’s going to depend on how many other people are willing to pay for that keyword or search term? How many other people are willing to pay at least a dollar and how relevant those people are? The less relevant you are, the more you are generally going to pay.
[00:09:04] Scott: That’s a good point right there. Let’s highlight that.
[00:09:06] Chris: If you are selling a garlic press and you are trying to bid on, I have one on my hand, a water bottle. Amazon will generally not show you for that. But there is a certain threshold where you can bid and you’ll show up for it. If you want to pay them $25, they’ll show you. You’ll just pay $25 a click. And so you kind of have to understand that a water bottle is not relevant if you are trying to sell a garlic press. But you can generally kind of bid your way there so you want to focus on the terms that are most relevant to you because it’s going to help you pay less.
[00:09:41] Scott: Know let me ask you this. So if you were to go out there and bid on water bottle and you didn’t have water bottle in your listing, it would probably be hard to rank unless you had that water bottle in the backend of the keyword field in the backend of your listing. Is that correct?
[00:09:59] Chris: It is and again that plays into the relevance factor.
[00:10:02] Scott: Exactly.
[00:10:03] Chris: Generally speaking, there is and Amazon doesn’t do a great job of sharing this data with us. On Google when you ran an ad through Google Ad words, they give you what they call a quality score. Which is basically like a rank one out of ten how related everything is. On Amazon they don’t give us that. But they do use something similar, and the way that you kind of overcome what Google would call a low quality score, a low relevance on Amazon is by increasing that bid. So there is theoretically a point at which you could show for water bottle if you are willing to pay enough. But why would you want to?
[00:10:36] Scott: Exactly. That makes sense. So let’s keep going drilling into the terminology and stuff. So let’s talk about the ad types. Or let’s talk about the keyword targeting types and examples. So maybe we could talk about that. So what type of keywords again, let’s talk about that really quickly like a keyword is what Chris? What is a keyword?
[00:11:01] Chris: So you guys may have heard me refer to this as a seed keyword or a seed word a couple of minutes ago. A keyword when we are talking about Amazon ads is something that we put in and then Amazon uses that as the base to riff-off of. So they’ll say okay, this is the seed keyword of garlic. They’ll then try a bunch of different words that go with garlic. So every time somebody searches garlic they might show you. But they’ll also show you for garlic press, garlic peeler, garlic bag which somehow became an example that we use. You know all of these different words related to garlic. So the keyword when you put it in to the sponsored ads is really a seed. It lets Amazon to start to collect data based off of that. When you hear us talk about a search term which is the other piece of terminology that you will hear us use here today and in anything related to Amazon sponsored ads, that’s what the customers actually typing in.
[00:12:00] Scott: Big difference.
[00:12:01] Chris: Sometimes, they’ll end up being the same if the customer happens to type in garlic press. But they might type in ‘blue long handled garlic press’. That’s going to be what the customer is actually typing in and once we start to run the ads, that’s what we care about. That’s what we look at to try to get the data and the feedback. Does that make sense Scott?
[00:12:19] Scott: It makes total sense. So let’s talk about that for a second. So if we are talking about a garlic press and we put that into… Now there’s three different types of targeting that we can do. We can do a broad match, we can do a phrase match and exact match. And know, just note this real quick guys, and I don’t know how long it’s been but that wasn’t always the case. It was always pretty much, it was broad for the longest time. Right Chris?
[00:12:43] Chris: Yeah. It’s been, well let’s see how long ago did we record episode 119? Because that was when they made that change.
[00:12:51] Scott: Yeah. That was going back a ways. That’s over a year, a year and something now. So yeah it doesn’t really matter but the key is they just added that not long ago. I guess in internet years it was years ago but…
[00:13:05] Chris: It was decades
[00: 13:06] Scott: It was decades ago. Yeah but know we have the opportunity to be able to use broad as like Chris said, it’s like the seed. You are planting that seed to then say Amazon, this is the keyword that is relevant to my listing, garlic press. Now what they are going to do, they are going to go out there and go, related to garlic press is garlic bag or red handled garlic press or let’s see garlic bag might even be just the one that they targeted because it’s related. It doesn’t have to be a phrase which then we can start talking about the phrase match. And a phrase match, is something completely different.
[00:13:44] Chris: So let’s define those and then kind of rattle through these examples.
[00:13:49] Scott: Sounds great. Let’s definitely do that. Yeah.
[00:13:51] Chris: So we have broad and it kind of makes sense when you think about it. So let’s just use the example of garlic press. When you run something as a broad match, Amazon looks for it at the highest level. So they are going to put anything they want that somebody might search with garlic press.
[00:14:10] Scott: Exactly.
[00:30:35] Chris: So actually the way that Amazon treats that is anything that’s a space, they consider that kind of a separate word. So we are going to get all kinds of data for garlic press, garlic bag but we also might get rotten garlic and moldy garlic and bench press and some of those kinds of things at the broadest level. Does that make sense?
[00:14:30] Scott: Yeah.
[00:14:31] Chris: They take each of those individual words and they say, “This goes with that, this goes with that, this is relevant to the listing, this is relevant to the listing,” and they start to give us just a massive amount of data. The second type is phrase. So if we put the term ‘garlic press’ into a phrase match, Amazon is going to say, “I’m going to put stuff before and after garlic press but these two words have to show up next to each other. Somebody has to type these two words in this order next to each other.” So you might get ‘blue long handled garlic press’ or ‘garlic press stainless steel’. But you are not going to get some of the most extraneous stuff like ‘bench press’ or ‘rotten garlic’.
[00:15:11] Scott: Exactly.
[00:15:12] Chris: Okay. And then speaking of exactly, the third type is exact. And in exact you will only show up if someone types in exactly the two words ‘garlic press’. Does that make sense?
[00:15:26] Scott: Yeah. It makes total sense and again I want people to think about like if you do a search in Google and you put quotes around that word, you are technically putting it into Google as like you only want to see stuff show up that is exactly in that phrase. It’s very similar. It’s actually the exact same thing inside of Amazon other than they are saying we’ll put something on the pre of the word or the beginning or we’ll put something at the end but in the middle there or even just on the front and the back or vice versa or maybe both you can then have what they call a long tail keyword or search term in this case. So a phrase really is that keyword or that word that you want inside of that term.
But with broad it is exactly what it says. It’s broad. It could be stuff that’s related in some way from that keyword. So again, I’d like to think of kind of things as like moving it down the funnel in a sense to where you are like you are standing at this really broad level, you are bringing it down a little bit further into the phrase, and then when you find a winner that you know is converting, and it’s a search term know not necessarily a keyword we are going to know call these search terms. Search term means it’s something that someone actually typed in because we can see that data on the backend inside of our reports, inside of our seller’s account and then we can make that decision.
Okay know we want to use that search term not keyword, search term because that’s what it was. It was a search term made by a human that actually bought your product. And then we can start to do some really cool creative stuff with that. We can have our own ad budget and all that stuff. But just so you guys understand the very, very beginning stages all we are doing is really we are mining for gold. You guys know I love Gold Rush, I talk about that show. I think of it the same way. You are finding you know a good pile of dirt and then you are sifting and then you are going down a little bit further, you go, “Oh look there is actually some good stuff here.”
[00:17:31] Scott: Now maybe we want to focus here a little bit more. And then you might dig down a little bit further and say holy crap we are on the gold. And then you would go to the exact. So it’s a way for you to drill down and start mining and the keyword level or what we are calling it the seed keywords, it’s a seed it’s going to start to attract all of these different search terms so then we can start to refine down the road. So I just want to be really, really clear on this because I think a lot of people don’t get this and Chris when you and I were flushing this out we were like you know I think that you and I get it but a lot of people don’t. They think keywords is keywords. Like they just talk about a keyword on the frontend like in the broad term and then they go okay, now I found some keys words that are converting over here. No, those are search terms. So there’s a difference. I just want to be very, very clear on that. Is there anything you want to mention on that to make it even more clear?
[00:18:23] Chris: I think Gold Rush is an interesting example. And for those of you who haven’t ever seen the show and I happened to have panned for gold and I’ve panned for silver a couple times too. And basically what happens is the same thing that you are doing in PPC. You have that screen. And in Gold Rush they do it with these big machines. But if you do it by hand you have this screen. The screen is your match type and then when you pile all that dirt on top, that dirt is your keywords. And you are saying, “I’m using this to kind of filter down.” The whole point is, the dirt falls through and the stuff that might be gold stays on top. Then you basically repeat that process.
[00:19:00] Scott: And keep refining. Yeah.
[00:19:01] Chris: So you are just moving down the screen and refining and finding things that are closer and closer to gold and then you end up with all of the gold at the end. So I like that as an example.
[00:19:11] Scott: Yeah. Cool. So, okay, so again, let’s kind of clean up some of this terminology though there are other terms there. ACOS, like why don’t you talk about that real quick?
[00:19:22] Chris: So your ACOS is your average cost of sale. And Amazon expresses this as a percentage. So if you have a $10 product and your ACOS is 40%, it means that you spent $4 to make that sale.
[00:19:37] Scott: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Chris: So, obviously you have to know what you profit is to figure out to figure out if you are profitable or not. Most of us make between 30% and 40%. So for at that we are kind of at a break-even level.
[00:19:47] Scott: Yeah, and guys, I’m going to jump in here really quick because a lot of this stuff we just threw at you for somebody that are new or maybe not even new and you just thought and you are like maybe I thought I knew this and know I don’t. It’s okay, like this stuff can be complicated. We are trying to make it not as not complicated. Actually again, to be more visual about it. That’s why we did the workshop because I wanted to get Jeff and Brandon on who, know this stuff really, really well and I wanted them to actually walk us through like how to set up this campaigns. Like how to actually go through these different targeting types and these different campaigns and ad groups and all of that stuff.
So again, I just want to say, if you want to check that stuff out head over to theamazingseller.com/ppc, it will be more visual there. You can actually see these different match types and kind of like the funnel as it’s being kind of like sifted down into the gold. And that’s really what we want to do here on that workshop that we wanted to do on the workshop but then also being able to give you some resources that can make this process even easier. But again, hopefully we’ve got you guys to understand that seed keywords are top level. Your search terms are actually ones that were used by your potential customer or customers. So just understand those two.
I think that’s really, really important to understand that. Is there any other things that we should maybe mention here, probably it will happen once we start going through some of these examples of these campaigns but is there any other terminology that we should be mentioning here? We talked about broad, phrase, exact match types, we talked about keywords versus search terms auto targeting versus manual, ACOS, impressions, cost-per-click. So all of those things. I think those were the main ones. Is there anything that I’m missing?
[00:21:39] Chris: No, I think in terms of terminology, I think we covered it but if we do find anything as we start going through…
[00:21:45] Scott: Yeah. We’ll just explain it.
[00:21:46] Chris: We can explain it at that point. And guys, don’t get overwhelmed with the terminology, we’ll put together something that will kind of explain all of that for you as well.
[00:21:56] Scott: Yeah, absolutely, we’ll put a resource on that, on that resource page. Okay, so let’s talk about kind of “the old way”. And I just want to be very clear. Using this way, still can work but what we are finding is we can almost speed up the process a little bit and we can save a little bit of money rather than using the old way. And the old way is really like creating an auto campaign from scratch. I still think it works. It totally works but again, it’s going to take time and it’s going to cost you money to figure out the keywords that you might be able to get right off the bat just from doing the new way which we will explain.
But let me just kind of walk through what it looks like with using the auto campaign strategy. First off, again if your listing is not optimized this is not going to work. It’s not going to work in any of these different examples. So you got to make sure that that listing is optimized. Again, optimized means it just has to have relevant keywords and search terms that people could be searching for inside of there. You want all of those points, all of those different words in there you want it to be relevant to your product. I mean that’s kind of like common sense. We want to make sure that it’s relevant. That’s going to also be very important when we are looking for these keywords and that we want to start using the keywords even on the broad level.
So first off, it was taking an auto campaign, putting a budget on it like $25 a day, and then from there maybe a dollar to two dollars cost-per-click and then saying okay let’s see what happens. And then, that campaign is focused on your one listing and then Amazon is going to go out and it’s going to start taking your listing and putting it in front of peoples search terms. And then we would normally wait for seven to fourteen days depending, and again you want to probably look at it on the five day mark and just see how your impressions are on the right stuff and if not you just want to bump that up because that just means we are not bidding enough. But then what we would do is we would the pull that search term report, again, the word here I am using is search term report.
[00:24:05] Scott: That’s the report that we can say, okay here is the auto campaign, these are all of the search terms that were typed into Amazon and that were used to find my product. And then I can look at the impressions, I can look at the clicks and I can look at the sales. Sounds great and it is great. But again, there is a way that we can do this in kind of speed up that process because it’s going to cost us money in the beginning to figure out, okay, maybe I’ve got a bunch that they are here putting in front of my listing that really aren’t relevant. They are just kind of randomly putting them out there for some reason. Maybe it’s free plus shipping or something that’s being targeted from for mine because I have free plus shipping in my thing or maybe another keyword or search term that’s not even relevant to mine for whatever reason. But we won’t know that until we pull that report. Chris, what do want to mention here on the auto campaign as far as in the beginning stages when we are getting set up.
[00:25:02] Chris: In terms of the old way that we did it? Or in terms of…?
[00:25:04] Scott: Yeah, like the old ways is there anything I’m missing there as far as waiting for seven to fourteen days then taking that data and then we would move it into a manual campaign. Do want to just maybe walk through that real quick and then we can talk about the new way?
[00:25:16] Chris: Yeah, and I think, I think you pretty much nailed it Scott. Really what we were doing is we were just kind of saying, “Hey Amazon, go find us all of this data.” And Amazon does a good job of that. The kind of downside to that is it does take that seven to fourteen days and if you are pulling that search terms report, a lot of people don’t even look at it because we said you know don’t worry about your sales and a lot of people kind of take that as don’t even look at anything. And you have to look at your impressions to adjust your bids and make sure that you are showing up and then after that seven to fourteen days a lot of data that you get may or may not be relevant. Because you are kind of spread a little more thin than you would be if you told Amazon kind of what you are looking for. Which is something that we’ll dive into here in just a minute.
[00:26:01] Scott: Yeah and what I wanted to do also here really quickly because I know some people, and again we are going to show this on the workshop. So again theamazingseller.com/ppc, that’s being shown because it’s kind of hard to explain here but I’ll kind of try to walk you through it but if you want to pull that report, you go into your reports and then you go into advertising reports. So at the very top, you are going to scroll over to where it says reports and then you are going to scroll down to the drop down where it says advertising reports and then once you get into there, then you are going to be able to look at the top of that page.
You are going to see performance over time, performance by SKU, performance placement, search term report, other ASIN report, campaign performance report. So then what we are going to want to do is pull that search term report. That’s how you are going to do this. Now again if it hasn’t been running that long, it’s not going to have a lot of data. Is this delayed Chris? As far as like how behind, I know it’s behind but do you an exact or do you know like a rough like how many days is that behind?
[00:27:02] Chris: The search terms report?
[00:27:03] Scott: Yeah.
[00:27:04] Chris: I believe it’s two days behind because it takes them up to 48 hours to post sales. So they don’t push data into that report until they are sure about it. And then that tends to run if you just go in and pull that, that runs kind of as like a 60 day window. So if I pull it today, it will look back 60 days and say here’s all of the search terms that your Ad has been clicked on for over the last 60 days. Does that make sense?
[00:27:28] Scott: Yeah. It makes total sense. So again you are going to probably want to pull this report after a certain amount of time. Again if you have just started running your campaign and you want to pull it the next day then you are not going to have a lot of data.
[00:27:42] Chris: And you are not going to have any sales or anything posted in there.
[00:27:46] Scott: Exactly.
[00:27:47] Chris: And that’s why we have said you know you need to wait kind of that seven to ten days before you can even bother to look at this type of a report because you are not going to get the sales data in there and if you do, let’s say day five you get antsy or day three you get antsy, you are going to have one day’s worth of sales reported in there. And it’s not going to be really meaningful to you. Whereas if you wait that seven to ten days you are going to have a weeks’ worth of information in there and it becomes a little bit more meaningful.
[00:28:11] Scott: Yeah, and I think a lot of people will then jump the gun. They’ll go ahead and they’ll go, “Oh wow, look at this, I’ve got impressions and I’ve got some clicks and I only got one sale. It’s a loser.” I think you need to let it run its course. And if you don’t let it run its course you might be cutting a keyword that could potentially be profitable or you could look back again at that same report seven days later and then it would have been updated and you could say oh wow actually got four sales from those clicks. If I would have just waited I would have seen that data.
So yeah, it does take some time, some patience but again, that why if we are doing it the old way with the auto campaign we really need to let that run a minimum of seven days and up to fourteen days or longer before we could really get some good data. Because again if you are not bidding high enough, you might be also only getting a quarter of the traffic that you could technically be getting and that’s why then you want to start to look at the impressions in your clicks and all that stuff. So let’s move on to like the new way. And this is to me, it almost like we are skipping the auto campaign in a sense because now what we are going to do is we are just going to be smart about the keywords that are relevant to our listing. And I think that’s the word I want to stress here is being relevant. The old way was also like kind of take a thousand keywords, slap them into a campaign, see what sticks and then start moving stuff. Now there is a lot of disadvantages to doing that. Why don’t you talk about the disadvantages of doing something like that?
[00:29:39] Chris: So before we do that I’m going to talk about the advantages of doing something like that.
[00:29:41] Scott: Okay. That sounds good
[00:29:43] Chris: The perceived advantages and the reason that you would do something like that. The reason that you would put a thousand keywords in there is because you are putting a ton of dirt on top of your screen.
[00:29:53] Scott: There you go.
[00:29:54] Chris: You know something is going to fall through. The problem is you are taking dirt from ten different sites. You are taking dirt from my house Scott, from your house, from whatever and then we start to sift. We don’t necessarily know which dirt that gold came from. You can find it, you have to really drill down into that report and you may actually find that there was gold a couple different places. But you don’t know that there’s enough gold to keep mining there easily. It takes a lot longer than if you were to just say, “Okay Amazon I want to run for these.” Does that make sense?
[00:30:29] Scott: Yeah, I know. It makes total sense.
[00:30:30] Chris: So, we are piling a ton of dirt on and yes we are going to get results and we are going to find that some things that are promising but we can’t necessarily trace it back to the exact thing very easily. And we are kind of, we are hedging our bets in a way that we don’t necessarily even need to.
[00:30:48] Scott: Yeah. I know. That makes total sense. And again that’s why, and again I’ve done that. I’ve totally done that. I’ve slapped a thousand keywords into many campaigns and then we’ll see what sticks and usually there’s maybe like five keywords maybe eight keywords that stick. And again, you are kind of like spreading that budget again across all of those and so to me personally, I like it better now to keep them smaller, more relevant and then from there we can start to really focus on those targeted seed keywords to then bring us even better search term reports. That’s just you know my experience and I know I’m pretty sure that you agree with that.
[00:31:29] Chris: Yeah.
[00:31:30] Scott: And I know Jeff and Brandon do as well. And again, that’s kind of what we are going to be walking through with some of these examples and how to really create these different ones. Know there is a lot of dated kind of mind through. And you know, if we keep it simple in the beginning. If you have one ASIN it’s manageable, we can do that. Now, there are tools out there that help with that. Actually Seller Labs is just, they are coming out with a tool which we will actually be sharing as well which is pretty cool. I know Chris that you have been experimenting with that. It was in beta and you were kind of just playing around with it. And it’s pretty exciting.
[00:32:00] Chris: I’m excited.
[00:32:01] Scott: Yeah. It’s literally taking all of that data and then kind of bring everything to the fore front. But again, I don’t want to get into that right now again because it’s a visual thing and we can’t really share exactly how everything is kind of looking. But understand that it does take work to go through it. There is no set and forget. Like there is no set and forget way for you to put keywords, seed keywords into a campaign, walk away, then come back maybe I don’t know two weeks later, pull the report, take those, put them into manual campaign and then set it and forget it and go, “Okay, I’m good, I’m done. Everything is going to be fine.” You’ve got always to be looking at the data and continually expanding on that data which I think is pretty awesome to be able to do that know.
And really, I think just simplify the process, it doesn’t have to be thousands of keywords, again if you find a hundred keywords that are really, really relevant and that convert for you, it’s going to help you rank for a lot of different keywords and that will also drive rank and all that fun stuff. So let’s talk about, how would you go out there now and start a brand new campaign from scratch? Let’s just say that we have a brand new product, we have no data yet that’s come through for our product or maybe that you’ve already been doing this and you have some data and you are like you know I want to start over again.
I want to start from scratch. This is the way that we are doing it now. And it’s actually working out even better because number one we skipped the time of waiting for Amazon to tell us the keywords or the search terms that we should be using. We are going to actually go out there and take the most relevant ones that we can find. Well the next question is going to be how do I find these? And there’s a lot of different ways that you can do this. The first way and the most obvious way is to go to your competitors, look at the title, look at the bullets and look at the description.
[00:34:01] Scott: Those are going to be relevant to your listing if you have a similar product. Now you probably want to do this to three to five different competitors or maybe more. But again you want these to be relevant. So you are going to have a handful. You might even have a handful right now. You write a list down. You might already have ten keywords that you know are those seed keywords that you want to put in there and start the process. And that’s fine. Now you want to take it a step further, you can use tools that help you with this and these tools will actually go in there and I’m not exactly sure how they work but they do work.
And what they’ll do is they’ll go out there and they’ll scrape the listing from different keywords or search terms that have been searched for in the past, that that listing has either ranked for or showed up for. So the one that I’ve been really enjoying is the new one from Seller Labs which is Scope. And that one there makes it really easy because you are doing it right on the listing. Now I also use and I’ve used in the past is Keyword Inspector. Now there’s things that I like about that and there’s things that I don’t like about that but the one thing I like about it is, it gives you a really deep level as far as it’s really going down and scraping a ton of keywords. The downside of that a lot of times they might not be 100% relevant. And that’s where know you would want to start taking those keywords and say, “Well, I only want to take the ones that are relevant to my listing. I don’t want to take the one that says free shipping. Like I don’t want to take the ones that aren’t relevant.”
And then again for you to sift through those it going to take some time. I found that scope is definitely giving you less maybe upfront. At least that’s my experience but they are more targeted. They are more relevant and that’s at least from my experience. And I’m not saying that keyword inspector won’t give you relevant ones, I just think that they’ll give you a lot of other ones that might not be relevant and you don’t want to use those because then that could hurt your campaigns or even the amount of time that it’s going to take to go out there and find these relevant keywords. The other tools are out there, Merchant Words, there is Ama Suite, those all work as well.
[00:36:05] Scott: Those are more like suggestions of keywords. Like Merchant Words is suggestions, Ama Suite is suggestions. Although Ama Suite what they do is it’s kind of like you going out there and typing in garlic press, typing another letter after garlic press maybe with a space, like you are going to put like A in there and the garlic press apple let’s say. And then what it will do is it will go ahead and give you all the keywords that are inside of Amazon that come up for garlic press with an A after that begin with A. And then it will go through the entire alphabet and then it will go through letters, I’m sorry numbers, it will do all that. So that is kind of good because you know it actually gives you keywords or search terms that are being created inside of the Amazon platform. Merchant Words, I think there is a little bit of that but I think that’s more of kind of like a Google Keyword Planner tool. What’s your thought on that Chris?
[00:36:56] Chris: On Merchant words?
[00:36:57] Scott: Yeah
[00:36:58] Chris: I’ll tell you what, Merchant Words is a nice tool. The thing that people use Merchant Words for that I wouldn’t use Merchant Words for and the team over there is great but I don’t know where they get their relevance data. And so people say, “Oh well this keyword for garlic press it tells me that stainless steel garlic press gets 32,000 searches and garlic press only gets 16.” Yes and no. I don’t tend to even look at the number of searches inside of Merchant Words, if I use that I just look because it gives me a really good list and that’s one thing they do really well.
They say here is all of the relevant ones. They may miss some things that you rank for which is where something like Scope or Keyword Inspector comes in. Where they pull and they say this is what it’s showing up for. Merchant Words just kind of… Again Merchant Words is kind of like the way that Amazon treats a keyword. You put in something and them Merchant Words riffs off of that and says here’s all the other things that are related.
[00:37:53] Scott: Yeah. I think it’s like suggestions or a Google Planner Tool, keyword planner tool and there’s nothing wrong with that. If they are relevant keywords then yeah definitely, you can use that tool. But again we are trying to look at like in the beginning especially. We want keywords that we feel are really, really relevant and then potentially that are already being ranked for, for our competitors and then we can start drilling down using those. It’s going to speed up that process. I’m going to go ahead and give a shameless plug here because Chris. Scope I’m an affiliate for, now I know those guys like I said Brandon is going to be on and Jeff is going to be on. They have created this tool. It’s an amazing tool.
They are also giving us a discount as of right now I believe it’s $50 off. So you can head over to theamazingseller.com/scope and if you do end up grabbing that you can get $50 off by using the code TAS50. And all that information will be over on that page. So definitely go check that out and then Keyword Inspector they are located on my resources page on the blog. So again, if you guys want to check those out, they are definitely a great resource but you don’t necessarily “have to”. “You don’t have to.” But it definitely will help you mine for those keywords that are relevant to your competitors and you. So it’s a way to speed up that process. Okay, let’s keep going here.
So keeping your campaigns relevant, I just really want to end this part on that because I think it’s really, really important to understand that your listing need to be optimized, meaning if you want to rank for certain keywords and you want to be shown for certain keywords, you have to be relevant. That means your listing has to be optimized. So definitely pay attention to your title, your bullets and your description. And your backend search field. Don’t just stuff the backend search fields with just random stuff because you know maybe you pulled a report on using one of those tools and it gave you some random stuff that makes no sense but you are like, “No it says you know I pulled it.” Don’t do that. You are going to end up hurting yourself rather than helping yourself. So just definitely make sure that you are relevant. I think relevancy is going to be even more important moving forward. What’s your thoughts on that Chris?
[00:40:11] Chris: Relevancy is key in anything that we do and the more relevant we can be especially in something like PPC where we are spending money, the less money we are going to spend doing it. Like we talked about earlier. You can pretty much show up for anything you want if you are willing to spend enough, but the more relevant you are, the more dialed in you are, the less you are going to pay for that and the faster that you are going to get the results that you are looking for.
[00:40:32] Scott: Yeah, I agree. Okay, let’s move into… What do we do with this manual campaign? Let’s say that we just found 100. Let’s just use an easy number. 100 relevant keywords, again I’m saying keywords, let’s call them seed keywords. Okay we found these seed keywords, now we take those, we put them into a manual campaign, not an auto campaign a manual campaign and then we are going to use a $25 per day budget. Okay, that means that I’m willing to spend up to $25 per campaign on this one campaign and I’m going to say $1.50 to $2 per click is what I’m going to spend. So let’s just use that as an example. Now at this point Chris we’ve got this set up, we’ve got it running, know what? What do we do? How long do we let it run before we start looking at the data, like clicks and all that stuff?
[00:41:27] Chris: So if we set it up to go, let’s just say today.
[00:41:31] Scott: Yep.
[00:41:32] Chris: I would say you need to wait. You still need to wait a couple days. But before you even worry about, looking at the search terms report I would say probably check in after three to five days to make sure that you are actually showing up for stuff because we talked about $1.25 to $1.50 cost per click bid that you were going to set. We need to make sure that, that’s enough. And in most cases $1.25 to a $1.50 is going to get you some and we said this word earlier, impressions. Meaning you are going to show up a couple times.
But we need to double check that to make sure that when we wait that seven to ten days we are going to actually have data to look at. And that’s one of the questions that you and I have gone a whole bunch. It’s like, “Hey I got five impressions over the last week. Is that enough to look at?” You are like, “No.” So you want to make sure that you are getting hundreds to thousands of impressions a day. If you are getting like five to ten on a keyword, that’s not enough. You may want to raise your bid for that. And the reason that it’s okay to that is because we know doing it this way that everything that we are bidding on is actually relevant. Does that make sense?
[00:42:32] Scott: Yeah. It makes sense and again I just want to kind of mention here that if you’re running let’s say for three days and then you go ahead and you want to see like how things are going like what your campaign look like. You are in the broad match. We are setting this up as a broad match. And you know after three days let’s just say, we’ve got a hundred keywords and maybe five of them have you know under 1,000 impressions and all the rest may have like 10 and one might have 20, what would you do in this case?
[00:43:03] Chris: So you are saying most keywords have a couple thousands impressions and the rest have ten or twenty?
[00:43:07] Scott: Yeah, I would say, maybe there is a handful that have a thousand or two. All the rest are under 100 impressions.
[00:43:14] Chris: I would probably leave my bid the same on the ones that have you now a thousand or two after three to five days rather and I would raise my bid on the ones that don’t.
[00:43:25] Scott: Okay.
[00:43:26] Chris: Just to see what happens. Now there may be a little bit of cross over there in terms of what search terms are triggered? But I want to try to get as many of those as many impressions as possible as I can.
[00:43:48] Scott: Yeah, because here is the deal. Right? If we don’t have impressions, why are you even pulling the report in seven to ten days? Like we are not going to get any data.
[00:43:45] Chris: Right. There’s no point.
[00:43:46] Scott: There is no data. And I know our good friend Dom Sugar, I mean he is always aggressive and he is like, “My first day, I’m $5 a bid.” Because he wants to get impressions and clicks like overnight and then he wants to see like what the data is, like he is impatient like a lot of us are. But he sets his budget so he can’t get hurt too bad but he is going to be losing some money here on the frontend because he is trying to mine for the gold but that’s a way to speed up the process. Now a lot of people, they want to start slow and some other people say you know what, I want to go and find the low hanging fruit. I want to find the ones that I can get impressions for only spending $1 or $1.50.
So there’s two different mindsets here. Some people want to just bid high rate off the bat and just start seeing what is the top search terms or keywords that are going to get impressions. And then from there they can also start to see their data at that three to five day mark. The other ones that are maybe starting with $1 per click, they might be only getting a few hundred impressions. That’s going to take longer to start getting some data because if we don’t have the impressions, meaning if we don’t have the traffic people seeing are listing it’s going to take longer to get clicks and if we don’t clicks, we can’t get sales and if we can’t get sales and clicks we can’t look at the data really as far as what’s working and what’s not. Does that make sense Chris?
[00:45:05] Chris: It does and it all comes back to the data that you are trying to get. And so if you are not getting that data you can’t move into the next stage.
[00:45:12] Scott: Right.
[00:45:13] Chris: You have nothing to base it on.
[00:45:15] Scott: Yeah, okay. So now let’s say we did do that for three to five days. We set our, let’s say that we set our cost per click to a dollar fifty to two dollars and we are getting you know hundreds on some and we are getting thousand on a few others. At this point in time know, what do we do and when do we do it?
[00:45:30] Chris: So after that three to five day period, I would say wait until your seven to ten day period after you’ve started running it. So if you ran it starting today, it would be next Wednesday before we would even kind of look at it to refine down. And then what we are going to start looking for are keywords or search terms that have started to get what we call relevance. And kind of the number that you will hear throughout now for like true relevance is fifty clicks at that seed keyword level. So fifty clicks on anything that garlic press kind of span of. Does that make sense?
[00:46:02] Scott: Yeah it makes total sense. Yeah.
[00:46:04] Chris: So once we’ve seen that, we can say okay, this one is going to be relevant and then we can start to look into that data and if we are doing it manually you know looking into that search terms report and seeing which one of those search terms are actually starting to make sales, which ones are not making any sales and which ones are getting close to that relevance.
[00:46:24] Scott: Yeah. Okay, so I want to actually before we jump into kind of like the different things here as far as I like what we can do to really refine and tweak. I’m actually pulling up a campaign that we just started, actually it was on the 10th. So we are only talking four days in. I’m recording this on the 10th, it’s going to air on the 22nd but I just want to give you… It’s only been running for not even four full days. Okay, now my ACOS, it’s 125.70%. So on the surface level you’ll be like woah, that’s crazy. Like Scott that terrible. I’ve had 99 clicks, I’ve spent $181.80, and I’ve made $112.79 a sale and this product sells between $17.50 and we’ve charged as much as $20 but right now we are playing around with $17.50.
So 99 clicks and I’ve got 568 keywords by the way, which is a little heavy but I went ahead and did a scrape and they were all relevant at least from what I can see and again 125%. Now people would look at this campaign and go, “It’s a loser Scot, turn it off.” All right. So what I’m going to do, I’m going to click in and I’m going to look at the keywords. And as I’m looking at the keywords right off the top there are one, two, three, four, there’s five keywords that converted to sales out of all of them. Now again, these are keywords, seed keywords not search terms. So we don’t have enough data yet to even pull that search term report. But I can see already the top three seed keywords in the broad match. The first one, 14% ACOS, the next one is 12.60% percent ACOS. The next one is 16.80%.
[00:48:28] Scott: And then the last two, 208%, then the other one is 238%. So immediately you would say alright, well Chris do I keep running those two that are so high, do I let them run out, like what do I do here? Because those first three, those are really good and oh by the way the impressions that I have, the first one that’s 14% it actually got two sales, it’s 256 impressions three clicks. The other one is 186 impressions, three clicks, two sales. And then the next one is 62 impressions, two clicks and one sale. And then the other ones are 4,821 impressions 19 clicks and one sale and the other one is 9,769 impressions, 22 clicks and one sale. So at this point I’ve got a whole mess of other keywords that have gotten no sales.
I’m trying to see here as far as if they have gotten any clicks. Yes I’ve gotten a lot of other ones and I’ve gotten clicks and I’ve gotten some that haven’t converted, so again that’s where we would probably want to start lowering the bid. I’ve got one here Chris that’s 17,714 impressions, 10 clicks, no sales and I’m bidding two dollars on that one. So this is probably at this time, I would probably want to come in here. It says I paid $1.45 per click. Right there I would probably want to go ahead and start lowering my bid on some of these that are getting clicks but not getting sales at that level. Would you still continue at 10 clicks even though I didn’t get any sales with that high of impressions? What would you do in that case?
[00:50:04] Chris: So this is where the art versus science perspective come in and this is something we’ve talked a lot about. We just said kind of 50 clicks seems to be where that threshold where you get a true statistical relevance, the science side.
[00:50:16] Scott: Yeah.
[00:50:17] Chris: Now for me, the art side of that is saying okay, if I were to make two sales on the next two clicks which I haven’t done isn’t going to be profitable. The other way that I like to look at this is, I know what my conversion rate on the listing is. And you can find that in your reports. I’m trying to think of any other reports off the top of my head. If you go into your reports, business reports, detailed page sales and traffic I believe?
[00:50:42] Scott: Yes.
[00:50:43] Chris: And then you get your units session percentage which is your conversion rate. So let’s just say you know you guys have heard us throw out some numbers in the past. 15% to 205 percent conversation rate is generally a pretty good conversion rate. So if I’ve gotten 10 clicks and I generally convert you know my listing normally converts at 20%, I would want to see two sales in there because two out of 10 is 20%. So I would want that word to be converting at least as well as the rest of my listing is. So for me I would probably start lowering my bid on that stuff just because I either want to cut it out completely but there’s not really a reason to just pause it because it still might find us some good data, we have to find it kind of a threshold so maybe I would cut the bid there into a half to start and then just see if I’m still showing up in I’m still getting impressions on stuff. Because what might happen is it may take 20 clicks to make a sale on that. But if it comes closer to break even a profitable then that’s okay.
[00:51:39] Scott: Yeah. I would still drive traffic even if it was a break even on that one because you know that’s going to help me rank and then eventually get organic sales. But like you said Chris, I mean my first instinct and again I’m not an expert at pay-per-click but I do know how to work it and kind of like to use it to my advantage, I’ve got things to learn that’s why I am always reaching out to people like Jeff and Brandon and wanting to learn more and having them on a workshop that we are going to be doing. But in this case, if I was to look at it that way without even being here on the podcast or with you, my first instinct would be like okay, I’ve run this for almost four days, I might let it run the day out and then from there I’m going to start lowering the bid on the ones that are getting high impressions and high clicks but no sales.
I’m going to lower that and see if I can still getting traffic which I’m assuming I can. And I would just cut that in half. So if I’m spending two I’m going to spend a dollar. And then again I would give it that three to five days and start looking at that data. But I’ve clearly got some winners in the broad. Now the magic here is going to be okay, on those broad terms, those broad keywords, seed keywords. There’s technically two sales each. So that’s four. Okay. It’s still not ready to pull, I can pull the report, it’s still not ready for me to pull anything out of the search term report and put into its own campaign. It’s not there yet. It’s not mature enough. I still I’m mining for gold and again this seems like these are a couple of good keywords, three keywords, seed keywords that might get me 30 different search terms or maybe 10 search terms that convert. But I have to let it run its course.
[00:53:13] Chris: Scott, here is something that is kind of interesting and we didn’t plan this. We are kind of riffing this but this is something that’s interesting.
[00:53:18] Scott: That’s what we do here. That’s what we do.
[00:53:19] Chris: You know I’m looking at the same keyword report that you are looking at, guys we are looking at the backend report and not the search terms report because it hasn’t been running long enough for us to really…
[00:53:30] Scott: No we have been looking at the campaigns in the keywords level.
[00:53:33] Chris: Yeah, and this is generally not where you would refine from, like we said you are going to refine form the search terms. But just looking at this, the ones that you said one is 14%, one is 12%, one is 16%. If you look at the keywords, those seed keywords, those are actually very likely to also be what customers are typing in. And this goes back to the relevance that we were talking about earlier. The ones that you got 4,800 impression, 9,000 impressions that are 208%, 238%, those are way more generic than the other ones. And I guarantee you when we pull the search terms report and I’m actually kind of cheating because I didn’t even know that it would be relevant, that the search term that you are actually making the sale on for those more generic keywords is much more relevant. It’s not just going to be one word.
[00:54:22] Scott: Yes.
[00:54:23] Chris: It’s going to be a couple words that are going to be much more relevant to you in an actual listing.
[00:54:27] Scott: Yep.
[00:54:28] Chris: What we don’t want to do those. We don’t want to assume that, that’s how it’s going to be the case because a lot of times we’ll miss some of those golden nuggets. Which is why we still suggest starting out at the broad level and this is fine. We know that at 208% there is something in there that is making us money. We also know that there is a whole bunch of junk. There is a whole bunch of racks and once we start to get enough data we can go in and pull that out and keep just the gold.
[00:54:55] Scott: Right and we are going to be able to look at the… I’m just using this one as an example. 9,769 impressions, 22 clicks we spent $29.68, we spent $1.35 per click, we made one sale. So that one sale, we are at a loss there. If everything stays the same, we are at a loss but once we pull the search team report we are going to be able to see those 22 clicks what search terms they came from and which one converted to a sale. And then we can take those ones that didn’t turn into a sale and we can start refining that by adding in negative keywords and stuff like that. We are not going to do that right now because we don’t want to get too like deep into kind like how to refine, but again I’m just trying to share this almost like live with you guys because it’s a process.
I’m not alarmed by this here, I’m willing to spend money to promote to actually get visibility so I can start to rank. I’m not necessarily looking at this like okay like I’m going to make all of my profit by running sponsored ads. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is yes I want to be profitable if I can but I also want to drive traffic that’s converting because then it’s going to help me rank. So it’s a win-win all the way around but the one thing I want everyone to understand and I’m going to say it again is right now I’m looking at the seed keywords that I put into this campaign.
But on the back end of a search term report I’m going to be able to find out those 22 clicks, what search term they came from? And that’s where the gold lies. So I just want to be very, very clear on that. Same thing I’ve got another one that got 4,821 impressions and 19 clicks with one sale. There’s 19 clicks that happened and they could have came from the same search term report or they could have come from 19 different ones. But we are not going to know that until we get into the search term report. So I just want to be clear on that. Chris anything else you want to say on that?
[00:56:49] Chris: No, and like I said a minute ago, the one with 19 clicks and the one with 22 clicks super generic. So we know in that search terms report that there’s a very high likelihood that there’s 19 different search terms.
[00:57:02] Scott: Yep. And you saying it’s generic, it’s generic in the sense that it’s not the product in a sense. It’s not the garlic press. It’s let’s say it’s a cooking mat or something like that.
[00:57:19] Chris: Cooking equipment.
[00:57:20] Scott: Or cooking equipment. Yeah.
[00:57:22] Chris: It’s a generic way of describing the product.
[00:57:24] Scott: Yeah. It’s a category more than the product itself. Yeah, but again, that one thing could or it already did, it converted them to a sale. So let’s figure out which one it converted to a sale and then we can say okay, that makes sense the other ones don’t you know and then we can start to refine. Then once we start to see a pattern meaning okay, we’ve gotten 10 sales every time that we get clicks on that search term after we pull that report then it might come time to where we say let’s move that into a phrase match. But if we don’t get enough clicks and let’s kind of talk about that really quickly again I know we are covering a ton here and that’s why I wanted to do this workshop with Jeff and Brandon, because it will make a lot more sense if you can visually see it.
They are going to be showing like what we are kind of looking at it right now. They are going to be showing like examples of these stuff but as you’re drilling into the data, you need to decide when is it time to pull one of those search terms that is converting and put it into its own phrase match. So maybe we could just touch on that Chris before we wrap up and just give people like that next step in this process because I’m not even ready in this campaign. This campaign is way too young but what’s the next step in and when do we decide to pull a search term?
[00:58:45] Chris: So once we kind of have that relevant data and again guys you’ll hear us talk about like 50 clicks is kind of that true relevance point. But you can make some kind of gut calls before then and I tend to jump the gun more than most and I’m willing to say if I have 10 clicks maybe in two sales and I’m converting at the same rate then I’ll move that down. But kind of play that with whatever risk you feel comfortable with. Obviously the closer you get to 50 the more money you’ve spent the more relevant it is. So you have to kind of make that call in there for yourself. I like to use kind of my conversion rate, my average listing conversion rate as a guide there. That’s just me. But I also do more fine tuning than most people would. So the longer you can let it run the better.
[00:59:31] Scott: Yeah. So don’t get impatient. It is really what we are saying.
[00:59:35] Chris: And that’s the thing. If you get one click and it’s not enough. If you get 50 clicks, it’s enough. Like that’s when you can really start to make those feels.
[00:59:42] Scott: But we are not saying though it’s going to be 50 clicks to a sale. We are saying we need 50 clicks on a keyword, a seed keyword. We need 50 clicks on there to know that we got enough…
[00:59:53] Chris: Relevant data.
[00:59:54] Scott: Yeah, we have relevant data you know. So this way here again when know you are saying like okay, now we are looking at the 50 clicks and we are looking at the search term report, now we can say that we’ve got enough data inside of there to make a decision if we make one at all because if you have 50 clicks and you have 50 different search terms you are not moving anything yet. Because now it’s spread out amongst 50. If we take those 50 and there is 40 of them that were converted to one search term that people are searching for, then its time.
In my book 40 clicks and sales all from the same search term that to me I’m moving on. That’s me personally. Some people would go as low as 10 or five and that’s going to come down again like Chris said it’s an art and a science where you have to make that decision. You are going to know your product. You are going to know if it’s really, really targeted towards your product or if it’s just something you are like really, like people are clicking on that’s and buying a product. I wouldn’t think so, that might take a little bit more proving. But if you have something that’s relevant and you see people are clicking on it and buying that might come quicker. I guess it’s what I’m trying to say.
[01:01:06] Chris: Right. So what’s the next step then Scott? It’s kind of what we are trying to get to.
[01:01:10] Scott: Yes, so why don’t run through like a little check list, like what’s next and then we can wrap this up. I know we went longer than we wanted to but I knew that was going to happen because this topic can go on for days.
[01:01:21] Chris: We could literally talk about it for days which is why we are doing it all this week. That’s literally why we decided to do a week of it is because we said you know it’s one of those things that you are I could sit in a room. We could do a full day event just on this.
[01:01:34] Scott: Yeah.
[01:01:35] Chris: And you would still have questions.
[01:01:37] Scott: And we have, we’ve had our live events and usually when a topic comes up for pay-per-click we end up spending an hour and a half on just this topic and then we have to move on because we won’t get anything else covered. So yeah, that’s why we wanted to have Jeff and Brandon come on and do this workshop and then we decided you know what we are going to do in the entire week of Facebook lives and then if you can attend them great and if not we’ll have them all in the resource section of this sponsored ads training which will be at theamazingseller.com/ppc just to make it easy for you guys to find everything in one location. So totally free too guys. There’s no cost to this, we are going to give you guys all this training, I’m going to try to bring in some experts like Brandon and Jeff to help us now and in the future. So definitely keep your eye on that page.
[01:02:22] Chris: So once we kind of have that data back Scott the next thing that we are going to do is we are going to find the things that are working. The things that are making us sales, that are making us profitable sales or break-even sales. And we are going to take those search terms not the keyword, the search terms from the search terms column of the search terms report. I’m just going to see how many times I can say that.
[01:02:42] Scott: You can say that a lot.
[01:02:43] Chris: Search term, search term, search terms. You are going to take that columns, the ones that are going to be working for you and you are going to move them to a phrase match. And you can do that one of two ways. You can do that in another ad group in the same campaign or you can put it in a different campaign. I like to kind of make a converting campaign and the reason that I do that is, I can assign a budget to you. You don’t have to do that if you want to keep it a little more organized, mine honestly guys, you don’t want to see my back ends for PPC. It gets very complex. So the easy way to do that is to do that as a different ad group inside of the same campaign.
And then you are also going to want to add them as negatives in the broad match. So if you move let’s just say, garlic press which we know is probably is going to be one if you are selling garlic press that you’ll make profitable sales from. If you move that to a phrase. You also want to make sure that you add that as a negative phrase in your broad match ad group. So you are not running both places. And the only reason that you want to do that again it’s not like a big deal to run both places but the only reason you want to do that is because it makes it easier to look at that data again.
You are not spreading out your impressions for garlic press across multiple ad groups, you have it all in one place. So that when you do pull that search terms report or you use whatever tool you are using that it’s all of it kind of in one place and it’s easier for you to analyze. It’s not 13 different rows on a spreadsheet that you have to like add up and cross multiply and do all that stuff with to figure out how it’s actually performing. Does that make sense?
[01:04:12] Scott: Yeah, that makes sense. I guess my only question and this will be a question that I’ll be asking Jeff and Brandon is, okay we are going to pull that or we are going to put a negative in there but if that’s the keyword, the seed keyword that’s finding the data for me, if I turn that off if I’m in the same campaign or if I’m competing against the ad group, like won’t that cut down on my discoverability of other keywords now because that’s the one that’s actually going out there and drawing people in? So maybe explain that.
[01:04:43] Chris: No. So when you add a negative you can’t add a broad negative unless they’ve changed that in the last few days. Let me double check. Yeah. It’s just phrase and exact so the only thing that you are adding when you add a negative is you’re saying don’t run for garlic press here. So you will still how up for anything related to garlic and anything related for press in that broad match campaign that filter ad group if you will? It will just take anything that has garlic and press next to each other. That phrase. Garlic and press.
[01:05:18] Scott: Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense.
[01:05:20] Chris: And that will only run in the phrase. And you’ll still get red, blue, pink, garlic press stainless steel.
[01:05:25] Scott: Yeah.
[01:05:26] Chris: You’ll get all of those and those move down to phrase and then anything else that, that can filter for in the broad match will still happen in the broad match. So…
[01:05:34] Scott: And I think the one thing to say here thought and this will make a lot of sense for a lot of people, is what you’re saying is, you’re still going to run that broad keyword, you know the seed keyword?
[01:05:46] Chris: The seed keyword?
[01:05:47] Scott: Yes. But you are putting a negative in there to say, if you find this don’t use this. Only use everything else but this. So what you’re saying is you can still go out there and find all the stuff and again, some people what they would do is then they would pause that campaign or archive not that campaign, the seed keyword and that’s not what we want to do. By doing the negative keyword in there we’re now saying, yes keep going out there and finding stuff. That’s awesome but don’t use this one or don’t find this one because we already have it kind of thing. Is that right?
[01:06:20] Chris: And there’s actually, there’s another way that some people do this. I like doing the phrase negative in the broad campaign so if I’m moving something to phrase I’ll add it there as a negative in the broad. Right?
[01:06:32] Scott: Got you.
[01:06:33] Chris: But the other way that you could do that and to me it works and it doesn’t, is you can just lower the bid in broad. But to me then you still have a chance one that you are kind of competing and again there’s not really a problem with competing against yourself. But then you kind of loose out on the filter aspect of that keyword, of that seed keyword. Does that make sense?
[01:06:55] Scott: Yeah, it does.
[01:06:56] Chris: So you’re lowering its ability to show up for some of those other and I’m just going to say random things that people may type in because you are then saying okay, I only want to run at $0.95 instead of $2. If it’s in that broad match you want it to find… The whole point of using broad match is for you to go out and find as many related things as possible so,
[01:07:16] Scott: And by you lowering the bid you are restricting that. You are not allowing it to do its work. So I totally get it and I think people listening get it and I think that makes a lot of sense. I personally, and again you can do whatever you want. But I would not lower the bid to try to not show up now because again like Chris said know you are going to restrict all the other keywords that it could be attracting versus just going and putting it a negative keyword in there, to say, “Listen go get everything else, I don’t need this anymore, I got this.” And that’s really all that you are saying there? Is that what you are saying?
[01:07:49] Chris: Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying.
[01:07:51] Scott: Okay, cool. All right Chris, is there anything else that you wanted to run through? Is there any other points that we want to make before we wrap this up? I know this went longer. Again guys all of this stuff is going to be covered on the workshop. If you guys want to check that out head over to theamzingseller.com/ppc. It’s free training. We’re going to do it all week long so definitely go check that out. If you’re listening to this after the fact still go there, that page will be live there will be definitely a resource page there for you with a whole bunch of resources and we’ll continue to add to that. Again I know this is a really confusing topic for a lot of people including myself at times and it can get overwhelming.
So we want to start it out right and we also want to have a plan and place and kind of how to actually run through this stuff and that’s why we wanted to do this episode. We haven’t done one in a while and things have changed you know a little bit as far as even our strategy is, as far as moving forward not necessarily using the auto. I still think that people can use the auto campaign if they are brand spanking new and they just want to get their feet wet. It’s not a terrible way of doing things. It’s just going to take longer and it’s going to cost you money in the beginning to get to where you could be if you started with manual by looking at your competitor’s different listings and stuff. So is there anything else that you wanted to mention here before we wrap this up and head over to do a Facebook Live here?
[01:09:09] Chris: No. So let’s do one thing for everybody though scott.
[01:09:12] Scott: Sure.
[01:09:13] Chris: Let’s recap the new way
[01:09:14] Scott: There you go
[01:09:15] Chris: We kind of talked through the entire thing but just, let’s just give everybody a high level recap. So guys the old way that we talked about was using you know your auto campaigns and kind of building something different scrape campaigns and kind of what we are doing know is we are just kind of skipping that campaign or we are bolting it on at the end just as an additional filter but we know if we set up on that manual campaign using that competitor data and those keywords that they are using in their listings, that we are probably going to get 99% of the same things and we are going to be able to do it a little bit faster and for a little bit less money.
So we are going to be using just a manual campaign type with broad match to start with. And that something that we have to specify know. The keywords that we are entering we are going to enter as broad match keywords. These are all the ones that we talked about scraping from our competitor listings the ones that were pulling from titles and bullet points in descriptions and then kind of a common sense one. And what we are going to do is we are going to set that up and we are going to set our bid and Scott I think you suggested earlier about $1.25 to $1.50 is where you would suggest we should start?
[01:10:13] Scott: Yeah, I did $1.50 to $2 but yeah somewhere between $1 and $2 depending on how competitive the space is.
[01:10:19] Chris: Let’s call it a buck fifty.
[01:10:20] Scott: Cool.
[01:10:21] Chris: We are going to set that campaign up. We are going to copy and paste all those keywords in. We are going to make sure that it’s sets a broad match. We are going to then do the hardest thing in the world especially for most of us that are selling in Amazon because we get to see really cool stuff right away like sales. We are going to let it sit for like three to five days and then we are just going to check on it. We are not going to look at the sales that we are making, we are not going to look at ACOS, we are not going to worry about that right now. We just need to make sure that in that three or five day range that we’re making the bids in the right ball park.
We want to check our total number of impressions to see that we are getting hundreds or thousands per day, ideally thousands but you know we don’t have to worry about that as long as we are not getting like five. We are generally okay there. We want to get more, the more the better. Here you may need to raise your bids to get more impressions or clicks. You may need to double check your listing. That’s the other thing you are going to want to do in this three to five day period to make sure that all of the things that you are running for are somewhere in your listing so that you can get that relevance factor that we talked about. And then if you have a bunch of stuff that is getting a ton of clicks and a ton of impressions you may actually even want to increase your daily budget here by a few dollars just to see if you can bring in more data.
Then after that seven to ten day mark, that’s when we are going to start pulling that search terms report, find the keywords that we can lower bids on, find the keywords that we may need to continue to raise bids on and then actually find the search terms again the things that people are typing in that we may want to move to negative, that we may want to move to phrase. And then find some additional keywords may be if we were not as spread out as we want to be by scraping another competitor two and adding them in. So, from there we are just going to basically continue with that process every week or two weeks by pulling that report looking at that data, making sure we are getting the impressions that we want and seeing what’s working, do more of that seeing what’s not, do less of that. Does that make sense Scott?
[01:12:20] Scott: Yeah, it makes total sense. I just want to again remind people and this is as far as we are doing, we are allowing you know a keyword, a seed keyword to get 50 clicks before we decide it’s relevant. Right? So we just want to know that it’s had that much reach and again we need to get it there so we might need to keep increasing our cost per click to get there. And then from there we can start to look at the data on the backend of the search term report. So that way we can make that decision. So I just want to be clear on that. That’s us personally. If yours is 25 then it’s 25, we’re looking at 50. 50 clicks to be like, “Now we’re going to start looking at those 50 clicks and see exactly what’s going on here,” and then we can start to refine. So just wanted to kind of throw that out there.
[01:13:10] Chris: Spot on.
[01:13:11] Scott: All right. So I think that’s going to wrap it up and that was crazy. I figured we would go down a couple of different rabbit holes which we did but I think it was useful. I think that we clarified a lot of things. Again just understating the terminology, understanding a seed keyword versus a search term report is huge and then once you actually get it, once you wrap your head around it, I think then it becomes easier to then drill down into these different campaigns and then start to refine and then start to find the profitable ones and then cut the losers. And that’s really what it’s all about.
So again we are going to be doing a full week of Facebook lives, we’re going to be jumping on and we are going to be answering questions or recapping some of this stuff that we did on the workshop, again if you want to watch more of a visual presentation of this which we go even deeper, definitely check out the workshop but that can be found at theamazingseller.com/ppc and everything will be there.
All of the resources, the replay of the workshop and then all of the details about our Facebook lives that we are doing for that week and then if you are listening to this after the fact, after all this is all kind of over with as far as our Facebook live week, well you can still go there because we’ll have all of the recordings up and you can watch them and listen to all of the questions and answers and all of the content that’s been created. And again we’ll be adding to this on a pretty regular basis. When we have updates or we have other experts that we want to invite in we’ll do that as well. So Chris I think that going to pretty much wrap it up. Any last little bits that you wanted to kind of share before we wrap up?
[01:14:45] Chris: Just go do it guys. And PPC is one of those things. And Scott maybe one other questions that we can talk about is like when should I stop PPC?
[01:14:54] Scott: Yeah.
[01:14:55] Chris: Is there ever a reason for me to turn it off? And for me the answer is no unless you just cannot make it work. To me I will almost always continue to run PPC for a search term even if I rank number one. And the reason for that is, it tends to pick me up more sales. Yes I’m spending a little bit of money, it helps keep me at number one but I also find that I’m going to continue to find some more sales. So make sure that you guys are doing this and that you are being diligent about it because not looking at these types of reports and not keeping an eye on your PPC like you were mentioning earlier Scott is what tends to make this not profitable to people. Spending a couple minutes a day or an hour a week even looking at your PPC can help you avoid some of those pitfalls and you mentioned it earlier, it’s not “set and forget”.
We need to be looking at these things on a regular basis. And that I think is the other take away for people, it’s like it’s not “set and forget” but by any stretch of imagination. We need to constantly be looking at these reports and we have to make sure the data isn’t relevant because the two mistakes that we make are “set and forget” and then just moving stuff arbitrarily or stopping stuff before it’s really had a chance to work. So I think the new strategy that we kind of outlined here today, I think makes that a little bit easier for people to follow. Then some of the different ways that we’ve talked about doing it in the past and quite honestly it’s going to get you too relevant data significantly faster than it would have in the past.
[01:16:17] Scott: Yeah, absolutely. Alright, love it and I’m excited for this week and for being able to learn more about this myself and there’s always things that we can learn a little tip, a little nugget here and there so definitely come hang out with us. So like I said we are going to be on Facebook live on The Amazing Seller Group and you guys can find us there or again if you just go to theamazingseller.com/ppc. All the resources and links and everything will be there for this topic.
And this is going to be an epic, epic resource page because it’s going to be built over time, free, totally free and to me it’s something that I think that we’ve been lacking as far as The Amazing Seller community and just being able to put something out there to help more people in this because again, I’m not the expert. I want to go out and find the experts and learn from them and hopefully we can all learn together.
So Chris, that’s pretty much going to wrap it up. Guys I want to remind you that I am here for you, I believe in you and I am rooting for you but you have to, you have to… Come on say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, Chris is on with us here and he is going with us too on the count of three, one, two, three, “Take action.” Have an awesome amazing day guys and I’ll see you right back here on the next episode. “What’s that? Did you say it?”
[01:17:37] Chris: I said it.
[01:17:39] Scott: On the count of three, “Take.” Come on Chris on the count of three
[01:17:43] Chris: You didn’t count
[01:17:44] Scott: I did count. Are you ready?
[01:17:46] Chris: No, I said it with you the first time, the second time you didn’t count. Let’s do it again Scott. Let’s give that one more go .
[01:17:54] Scott: On the count of three, one, two, three, “Take action.”
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